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Camshaft / distributor drive failure - advice


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Alan

 

Cam followers were new, cam was re ground "new" cam and was run in properly. Valve springs were extra string but came from Ken Gillanders in U.S. So should not have been an issue

 

Pete

 

The "debris" is the build up from when the head was ported and flowed which is starting to delaminate out of the ports. Not sure why this is happening (only on 1 & 2 cylinders)

 

I believe The damage to the rear seal Is from the crankshaft - seems there was something wrong with the thrust bearings as they are unmarked - maybe the wrong size

 

So we start all over again - no come back on previous builder as he passed away unfortunately

 

Will keep this updated as we go along

 

Graeme

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I've seen those Ford lifters disentigrate like that too.

 

Keep in mind those Ford lifters are a smaller diameter than a stock Triumph lifter. If you're mixing and matching parts, it's not a good thing...

 

The best TR4 race engines are using stock diameter tool steel lifters on a custom billet steel cam core. That's almost a $1000 set-up. Obviously, you don't need that though

 

How is your valve retainer to guide clearance?

 

Not sure what spec valve springs Ken is selling.

 

Did your cylinder head guy fill in the floor? Looks like he used lead? If it's lifting, then that needs to come out.

Edited by hoffman900
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I've seen those Ford lifters disentigrate like that too.

Keep in mind those Ford lifters are a smaller diameter than a stock Triumph lifter. If you're mixing and matching parts, it's not a good thing...

The best TR4 race engines are using stock diameter tool steel lifters on a custom billet steel cam core. That's almost a $1000 set-up. Obviously, you don't need that though

How is your valve retainer to guide clearance?

Not sure what spec valve springs Ken is selling.

Did your cylinder head guy fill in the floor? Looks like he used lead? If it's lifting, then that needs to come out.

Yes the builder had the head filled, yes it has to come out and be re-done, any suggestionsbonnwhy it may have lifted like that?

 

Graeme

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Yes the builder had the head filled, yes it has to come out and be re-done, any suggestionsbonnwhy it may have lifted like that?

 

Graeme

Likely different expansion rates. I do agree with the premise of filling the port as the TR ports are huge - at least at the inlet.

 

Typically head porters will use epoxy like Splashzone or Devcon on aluminum heads. Sometimes you see them on iron drag race heads, especially in the NHRA Super Stock classes (stock head casting / port volume rule). Those guys will key the epoxy in with grooves cut into the port and the insertion of machine screws for it to grip on to. Even then however it requires to be ground out and reapplied after so often and methanol and other racing fuels will eat it if it is my sealed properly. See the attached.

 

On the iron heads you all see porters use metal tongues that are attached to a flange gasket.

 

Really the best way to do it is to weld the ports up however. This is probably aluminums biggest advantage when it comes to heads - the ease to modify.

 

Did he give you flow numbers? Cross sectional area numbers? I'd really think about starting over with it. I can't help with a UK source, but I definitely could give you some names in the States who will do a fantastic job on them.

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Edited by hoffman900
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Ok so I need some advice on parts suppliers & other things

 

Obviously i want a new oil pump - recommended suppliers, same goes for water pump

 

can someone confirm recommended clearances for piston to liner - want to check existing ones against this

 

recommended valve spring rates, install heights & supplier

 

torque setting for flywheel bolts

 

thanks in advance - I'm sure there will be more questions

 

Graeme

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Oil pump:

 

Stock modified by Steve Yott, http://www.tonydrews.com/OilPump0001.pdf

 

Piston clearance:

 

Dependent on what type / manufacturer. A common forged piston will ever in the .003 - .0035 range. I can't comment on cast Pistons.

 

Valve springs:

 

Contingent on valve and retainer weight,how aggressive you are going to cam it and the rocker ratio, how much you're going to lift the valve. For the run of th mill street engine, get them from s source like here:http://www.aptfast.com/ShowItem/103426%20TRI%204%20Cylinder%20Double%20Valve%20Spring%20Set.aspx

 

Pushrods:

 

Trend, Manton, or Smith Bros in the US. You want them as strong as possible and to be steel.

 

Lifters:

 

Stock just ask the cam grinder about taper before you have them reground.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Well all the parts now ordered, mostly from Darryl at Racestorations who has been a great help. List goes something like this:

 

Steel rods (longer), 89mm liners, slipper Pistons, new moly push rods, new followers, new updated timing chain, vernier cam gear, .10 thou undersize bearings, new racestorations cam, Steve Yott billet oil pump ( thanks Hoffman for the referral - lovely bit of kit ), alloy billet water pump, new (2nd hand) sump to take oil temp sensor, newly refurbed J type overdrive being mated to gearbox

 

So when the parts get here next week we start building

 

I'll post photos as it comes along for anyone interested

 

Graze

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£ss Ouch

 

AlanR

Alan

 

Particularly as this is the second time in six months

 

Graeme

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Snapshot of Darryl :D:D:D

 

Mick Richards

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You boys are funny

 

But I decided I was happy to pay a premium because we needed the advice Darryl can provide to help get the engine built over here as its almost impossible to find anyone with the experience locally who is still in the trade. And I can't afford for it to go wrong again

 

Graze

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  • 11 months later...

Hi Graeme,

Sorry to see the severe damage! Just a few thoughts. As mentioned elsewhere the quality of oil may be a factor. Looking at the state of the crank and the cams etc it either ran out of oil or the pump failed which in turn would cause all the other issues. Have a good look at the pump! The other clue is the amount of carbon in the 2 exhaust ports. I suspect that those 2 pots have been burning a lot of oil (broken or incorrectly fitted oil control rings?) A broken or seized oil control ring on 1 pot may cause oil starvation in under 20 miles! Having just fitted new pistons/liners with the newer style composite oil control rings I am aware of how tricky it is to get them fitted into the bore correctly! (I have had considerable experience with engine rebuild of all sorts) Once you have the knack its straight forward with the right tools and technique. The older style single piece control rings are so much easier to fit.

 

Good luck with the rebuild!

Mark

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