RogerH Posted April 20, 2016 Report Share Posted April 20, 2016 (edited) Hi Charles, With the cross shaft lever fully rewards (bearing against the diaphragm) and the slave cylinder push rod fully pushed into the slave - how much of a misalignment is there - does the pin go in through rod into lever. 21, 22, 18 http://www.moss-europe.co.uk/shop-by-model/triumph/tr5-6/clutch-transmission-drivetrain/clutch-systems/clutch-system.html If the rod needs to come out in order to get the pin in (slave cylinder rod into the lever) then that would be an area of lost motion. Clutching at straws Roger PS - is the plate 29 fitted on the correct side of the GB flange. Is the slave fitted correctly on the plate Edited April 20, 2016 by RogerH Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter Cobbold Posted April 20, 2016 Report Share Posted April 20, 2016 (edited) - is the plate 29 fitted on the correct side of the GB flange. Is the slave fitted correctly on the plate +1 http://www.tr-register.co.uk/forums/index.php?/topic/27098-does-it-bleeding-or-something-else/ #17 photo Peter Edited April 20, 2016 by Peter Cobbold Quote Link to post Share on other sites
cotswold Posted April 21, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 21, 2016 Hi Roger There is a gap between the push rod and the vertical clutch lever (will go and measure later) and the plate 29 is behind the flange, do you think it should be the other side? Looking at Peters link to a previous thread on a clutch it would seem to be correct at the further away position, it would certainly help by moving the plate and slave forward, if so I may not need the two washers I used as spacers if I moved it to the other side? I already have the push rod on the uppermost lever hole. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted April 21, 2016 Report Share Posted April 21, 2016 Hi Charles, the push rod should be on the lever middle hole. Do everything with it there. The plate #29 attaches to the rear of the GB flange (according to the Moss picture http://www.moss-europe.co.uk/shop-by-model/triumph/tr5-6/clutch-transmission-drivetrain/clutch-systems/clutch-system.html). The slave Cy. enters the plate from the front. With the cross shaft lever fully rearwards and the slave Cy. push rod fully inserted there should be only a small gap stopping pin #22 entering the clevis. The push rod should be a little forward in relation to the leaver. As you have found out - if you push the rod into the slave Cy. fluid will build up in the Master Cy. - be careful. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
John L Posted April 21, 2016 Report Share Posted April 21, 2016 (edited) A few more questions to try and help. Do you have a spring attached to the slave cylinder? If so disconnect it for now. How far does the clutch pedal travel before you get resistance? With the clutch pedal fully raised by the spring, what's the distance from the centre of the pedal to the bulkhead? Looking for the travel of the pedal. Does your master cylinder have an adjustable push rod or is it a solid rod? Is the slave cylinder push rod adjustable or a fixed length one? Can you take some pictures and attach them on here? John Edited April 21, 2016 by John L Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter Cobbold Posted April 21, 2016 Report Share Posted April 21, 2016 Slave cylinder enters the plate from the rear. That means the nylon pipe union has to be broken to fit the cylinder to the plate - previous owner might have not done that. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted April 21, 2016 Report Share Posted April 21, 2016 Slave cylinder enters the plate from the rear. That means the nylon pipe union has to be broken to fit the cylinder to the plate - previous owner might have not done that. Hi Pete, that is interesting. The Moss Cat shows it the other way round. That could be where the lost motion is. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter Cobbold Posted April 21, 2016 Report Share Posted April 21, 2016 Hi Pete, that is interesting. The Moss Cat shows it the other way round. That could be where the lost motion is. Roger Hi Roger, I think so, easily an extra cm of actuation to be won. Have been there myself, cursing a design than needs the hydraulics to be broken to fit the plate correctly. The last three posts in the link I posted show the correct way and quote workshop manuals. Peter Quote Link to post Share on other sites
colin3511 Posted April 21, 2016 Report Share Posted April 21, 2016 Charles, Make sure the MC is for a RHD car as the push rod is a different length. I replaced mine and I could not change gear easily. The supplier sold me a LHD MC! I tried everything without success. Replaced the rod and it worked perfectly. Colin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DaveN Posted April 21, 2016 Report Share Posted April 21, 2016 I've seen them advertised but why does the LHD clutch M/C have a different length push rod? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
colin3511 Posted April 21, 2016 Report Share Posted April 21, 2016 Daven, It is located in a different position in the engine bay I think. Colin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Stanpartmanpartwolf Posted April 21, 2016 Report Share Posted April 21, 2016 ^ +1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted April 21, 2016 Report Share Posted April 21, 2016 Hi Pete, interestingly the slave on the 4A fits to the front of the plate. Whereas the slave on the 6 fits on the back, although the web Moss Cat shows it on the front. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
cotswold Posted April 22, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 22, 2016 (edited) Hi Guys, Here are some pics and information in response to your questions thank you so much for the support. John No Spring on SC 1” before MC piston contact 2” before resistance at slave 7 1/2” pedal at rest to bulkhead Neither the MC nor SC have adjustable rods Peter & Roger see pic is this right re plate? It doesn’t look like it would fit the other side anyway without fouling the casing. Colin, Could be but this was the one on the car when I bought it and although it has run OK the gears have always been a bit tricky to engage. Edited April 22, 2016 by cotswold Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter Cobbold Posted April 22, 2016 Report Share Posted April 22, 2016 Hi Guys, Here are some pics and information in response to your questions thank you so much for the support. John No Spring on SC 1” before MC piston contact 2” before resistance at slave 7 1/2” pedal at rest to bulkhead Neither the MC nor SC have adjustable rods Peter & Roger see pic is this right re plate? It doesn’t look like it would fit the other side anyway without fouling the casing. Colin, Could be but this was the one on the car when I bought it and although it has run OK the gears have always been a bit tricky to engage. S/c and pushrod looks OK to me. Do you mean 2" of foot travel on the pedal before you get resistance? I have about half-inch - and most of that feels like lost motion in pivots. Maybe the m/c pushrod is too short? Peter Quote Link to post Share on other sites
John L Posted April 22, 2016 Report Share Posted April 22, 2016 Cotswold I have about 8" with the pedal at rest to the bulkhead, but I do have an adjustable mc push rod, mainly to take out the play in the mc push rod and the pedal. These I think come from Revington, saves having to take the pedal out to weld up the hole. Would seem that your push rod could be correct So you are loosing quite a bit of travel on the MC which wont help the slave activation. The main thing with the mounting plate, it can be on either side of the gearbox flange, is that the piston doesn't come out of sc at full mc travel. John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Kevo_6 Posted April 22, 2016 Report Share Posted April 22, 2016 Charles When I replaced my SC, MC and flexible pipe last year, I do recall having to bleed it many times to get that last bit of air out. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
cotswold Posted April 28, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 28, 2016 Hi all, Decided to give up and take the car to Worcester Classic Cars for Simon to take a look at. He immediately saw that I had 1/2" free play before the pedal activated the push rod and siad he would start with that, probably drill it out and put in an oversize clevis or bolt. I know I hear you cry, how many times in this thread have several of you told me that! I know but I thought that by adding a few washers at the SC end would compensate. Simon patiently explained that in effect I was a muppet as no amount of moving the plate (29) or adding washers would make any difference apart from moving the piston further back into the SC as its self adjusting after each pedal depress it returns to the straight down clutch lever resistance position. The only way to adjust is to remove the stop tab on the clutch pedal and remove play from the push rod (ok I hear you again). Look the thing is I have never come across a clutch like this, usually on classics I have owned the clutch lifts off many inches at half the pedal push and engages at the same point. This clutch acuates at the very bottom after 6 inches of pressure. Simon says the same as you guys that if the eradication of the slack on the push rod doesn't cure it then out comes the gearbox and J type overdrive to sort the taper pin out, he will let me know (he will remove the washers on the SC still chucking at my ineptitude no doubt. Hope this assists others ........... Thanks again everyone your advice as always was spot on. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
cotswold Posted May 1, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 1, 2016 Update Simon at WCC has sorted the pedal slack on the MC push rod and all ok on the test drive. The irregular low running on the engine was worn PI butterfly linkage that responded to some fettling. I expect a call from him on Tuesday and fingers crossed my yellow peril will be sorted and with luck no need to pull out the clutch (estimated at circa £300 labour + VAT and parts). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
cotswold Posted May 19, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 19, 2016 The clutch is Ok ish now. The pedal stop tab is removed the MC linkage has been tightened and the 4 unneeded washers I used to move the SC forward have been removed. I will wait until I meet a fellow TR6 owner at my next club meeting to compare clutch feel but I can select 1st and reverse without force or protest from the gearbox. The rough running at low revs noticeable when trundling in slow traffic has been diagnosed by Neil Ferguson who said he had never seen a metering unit so badly adjusted, can't wait to put it back in in time for the classic meets. My car now has Moss classic leather seats, a painted coach line and wire wheels and I think looks amazing so hopefully will now run like it looks. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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