Semi and Mineral

[DavidBee]

43 minutes ago, AndyR100 said:

Classic Oils Heritage 20/50.. the only one willing to put their name to a ZDDP

But say you had to choose between three products, the first, mineral and high ZDDP, the second, semi-synthetic and high ZDDP, and the third synthetic and high ZDDP (all at same price).

Then the main consideration would no longer be the ZDDP content, but a choice between mineral oil and synthetic oil, in terms of its inherent properties.

In this case, which one would you go for and why?

[Lebro]

The one with the highest viscosity 

Bob

[Hamish]

I tried fully synthetic in a Daimler SP250 I had. Lost my oil pressure.

so went back to mineral valvoline VR1 20-50 and use it in my 3a now.

H

[stuart]

2 hours ago, DavidBee said:

But say you had to choose between three products, the first, mineral and high ZDDP, the second, semi-synthetic and high ZDDP, and the third synthetic and high ZDDP (all at same price).

Then the main consideration would no longer be the ZDDP content, but a choice between mineral oil and synthetic oil, in terms of its inherent properties.

In this case, which one would you go for and why?

Very rare to find high ZDDP in synthetic, and why spend a fortune when the Classic oils one is a great product and doesnt cost a fortune, stop trying to reinvent the wheel.

Stuart.

[AndyR100]

4 hours ago, DavidBee said:

But say you had to choose between three products, the first, mineral and high ZDDP, the second, semi-synthetic and high ZDDP, and the third synthetic and high ZDDP (all at same price).

Then the main consideration would no longer be the ZDDP content, but a choice between mineral oil and synthetic oil, in terms of its inherent properties.

In this case, which one would you go for and why?

I’d continue to use the mineral 20/50 that Mr Triumph advocated, with good ZDDP-levels at a fair price..... I don’t think it’s worth consuming more grey-cells on to be honest.

...... Andy 

[DavidBee]

12 minutes ago, AndyR100 said:

I’d continue to use the mineral 20/50 that Mr Triumph advocated, with good ZDDP-levels at a fair price..... I don’t think it’s worth consuming more grey-cells on to be honest.

...... Andy 

 

2 hours ago, stuart said:

 stop trying to reinvent the wheel. Stuart.

OK, OK, nothing wrong with working it out and asking these questions, is there? Not everyone has your amazing first-hand knowledge and experience.

Now I have a much better idea.

So thanks for that, anyway.

[Andy Moltu]

6 hours ago, AndyR100 said:

I still think it is difficult to look beyond  Classic Oils Heritage 20/50 mineral which appears to be the only one willing to put their name to a ZDDP content on the label at (imv) a fair price.

....... Andy

Millers don't hide their ZDDP content.

Morris Lubricants were less forthcoming when asked.

[AndyR100]

17 minutes ago, Andy Moltu said:

Millers don't hide their ZDDP content.

Morris Lubricants were less forthcoming when asked.

My apologies - I hadn’t seen it on their container labelling - great news that it is now stated! out of interest, what value are they quoting? 

...... Andy 

[Andy Moltu]

1 hour ago, AndyR100 said:

I’d continue to use the mineral 20/50 that Mr Triumph advocated, with good ZDDP-levels at a fair price..... I don’t think it’s worth consuming more grey-cells on to be honest.

...... Andy 

Does that mean you beleive the oil bearing the same name is identical to that of the 1950s?

Triumph made recommendations based on the lubricants in regular use in the day.

No doubt that may have involved deals with lubricant manufacturers to get a discount!

[Andy Moltu]

24 minutes ago, AndyR100 said:

My apologies - I hadn’t seen it on their container labelling - great news that it is now stated! out of interest, what value are they quoting? 

...... Andy 

Sorry I can't find the email.

On behalf of the Leicester Group I emailed a number of the "classic" oil suppliers asking about their ZDDP content, most were forthcoming and as I recall the Millers Classic products were at the upper end of the ZDDP spectrum. (The data sheet on theie web site doesn't specify the level beyond saying "full"). Castrol, Duckhams and Penrite were all happy to divulge their levels which again were pressy similar to Millers.

Morris Lubricants gave me one of the more patronising replies suggesting the ZDDP level wasn't relevant. Their customer service dept didn't get the the irony when I replied it was relevant to the question I asked! Not bought any products from them since. Interestingly I did find out from another source what the level was and it was pretty low and below what was considered optimal for our cars.

The Opie Oils web site is pretty good in that it allows you to filter the search including ZInc additives.

[AndyR100]

1 hour ago, Andy Moltu said:

Does that mean you beleive the oil bearing the same name is identical to that of the 1950s?

Triumph made recommendations based on the lubricants in regular use in the day.

No doubt that may have involved deals with lubricant manufacturers to get a discount!

Indeed, the additives will have changed, but the basis (a 20/50 mineral oil) is still nicely in-play, available at a sensible price, and does the job nicely in my view.

....... Andy 

[DavidBee]

First rate, Andy Moltu!

What a helpful set of information for the lesser spotted TR enthusiast, thanks very much.

So, I take it that ZDDP is top of the agenda, followed by viscosity, and multigrade, regardless of engine, standard or modified.

Just what I was trying to figure out. After all, a consensus of opinion doesn't necessarily mean a good choice.

Edited June 12, 2020 by DavidBee
a typo spoiling the text

[AndyR100]

58 minutes ago, Andy Moltu said:

Sorry I can't find the email.

On behalf of the Leicester Group I emailed a number of the "classic" oil suppliers asking about their ZDDP content, most were forthcoming and as I recall the Millers Classic products were at the upper end of the ZDDP spectrum. (The data sheet on theie web site doesn't specify the level beyond saying "full"). Castrol, Duckhams and Penrite were all happy to divulge their levels which again were pressy similar to Millers.

Morris Lubricants gave me one of the more patronising replies suggesting the ZDDP level wasn't relevant. Their customer service dept didn't get the the irony when I replied it was relevant to the question I asked! Not bought any products from them since. Interestingly I did find out from another source what the level was and it was pretty low and below what was considered optimal for our cars.

The Opie Oils web site is pretty good in that it allows you to filter the search including ZInc additives.

 Thanks for looking,  personally, I like it when a manufacturer is confident of their product to include the info on the label.  I was a long-time consumer of Valvolene VR1 20/50 on both Stag and TR, but they have become less clear on their ZDDP levels (they used to be 1400 ppm as Zinc). 

It is great that the world has room for us all to make out own choices  , this subject always generates some good discussion 

...... Andy 

[ntc]

This old chestnut again  Just ask Revingtons there guide after they rebuild engines, 5000 miles on 20/50 then over to semi synthetic. 

[Andy Moltu]

There is a difference between the long term protection you want for an engine an limited wear that is important for rings to bed in when running an engine in. 

Running on oils are formulated to allow limited wear but would lead to premature wear if used long term.