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Water +antifreeze or Evans waterless coolant?


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Rob,

 

I stand corrected if Evans and 4life are one and the same product, but the differences in methods recommended by the two products of adding to an engine previously running with blue stuff does raise doubts, Castrol are a very large organisation and unlikely to be putting out duff gen.

 

Pete, I have never found it necessary to top up 4life so never bother carrying a spare can.

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At the start of this thread someone mentioned the Wheeler Dealers TR6 episode where Ed (Satin Black) China used waterless coolant.

Reckon that must be about 3 years old but remember watching and having a bit of a chuckle.

Can't remember the exact details but seem to remember thing the whole thing seemed a bit of a set up.

From memory the purchase price was a bit of a joke and the owner practically gave it away without any argument.

There was a rusty petrol tank that seemed to have rusted in an area I had never seen a TR tank (nor Spitfire) rust before.

I seem to remember comments that TR6's are notorious for overheating hence the waterless coolant. Thought at the time he was getting confused with some problems associated with Stags.

Always thought they used a mates car and finished it for him free of charge just to make the episode.

Sorry I missed the re run but sure if I look out it will be back in a week or so!

Tend to watch all the classic resto. programs but try to watch now when the wife's not around.

She can't stand me shouting at the TV when ever I hear stupid and incorrect comments.

The best series I can remember was Mark Evans with the Car is Born series.

He did a lot of it himself, they were not afraid to screen mistakes and he always admitted them later.

 

PS

Thanks Stuart for the waterless test link.

Very informative.

 

Steve

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Mind you Bob

Although the restoration was great and the work & the detail was excellent, seem to remember the unveiling of the project at the start looked a bit suspect.

Pulling back the tarp covering the car showed some very wet debris that seemed to have been planted for effect.

However, the whole restoration process was "real".

Remember that the guy doing the paintwork was very skilled but a bit "away with the fairies" and a bit of a nutcase !!

Great to watch though & very educational.

Steve

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Certainly does Roy . . . . . common sense, for a start.

 

Waterless coolant is rather like silicone brake fluid in the sense that it can be an excellent product for some applications, and rather less than ideal for other applications.

 

Long term storage and/or museum display spring to mind in respect of both categories of product, and doubtless both will excel in this situation . . . .

 

That doesn't mean that you'd wish to utilise said products for motor sport, or even fast road use.

 

Cheers

 

Alec

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FWIW I believe its banned for Motor sport in the States .

Stuart.

 

Correct -- due to concerns about the fire hazard of neat ethylene/propylene glycol.

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OK so I have become thoroughly depressed by this thread. I inherited Evans coolant in my TR3. (So I haven't incurred the cost of conversion and filling - well not directly!)

 

What should I do?

 

Carry on regardless until I need to drain down to replace hoses/do something serious to the engine? Or dump the stuff now and replace with good old fashioned Blucol?

 

I think based on the fact that it's in there; I am still getting to know the beast, and the PO's judgement was sound in all other respects I shall let sleeping dogs lie!

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OK so I have become thoroughly depressed by this thread. I inherited Evans coolant in my TR3. (So I haven't incurred the cost of conversion and filling - well not directly!)

 

What should I do?

 

Carry on regardless until I need to drain down to replace hoses/do something serious to the engine? Or dump the stuff now and replace with good old fashioned Blucol?

 

I think based on the fact that it's in there; I am still getting to know the beast, and the PO's judgement was sound in all other respects I shall let sleeping dogs lie!

Ben,

A lot depends upon whether the PO removed all the water - did he go through the whole flushing rigmarole thoroughly. If there's any water left then corrosion inhibition in the waterless my be exhausted, and it could be worse that Blucol. If there's a test for water content that might be an idea.

If you drive it hard I'd switch as heat transfer is significantly slower.

Peter

Edited by Peter Cobbold
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Peter

Yes he thoroughly flushed the system. His journal which he gave me is a mine of information. Almost worth publishing it!

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Where does the temperature run on your TR3, Ben?

 

The heat capacity of waterless coolant is definitely lower than water or water+glycol blend, and it's described as a route to letting temperatures get a lot hotter without boiling over. That doesn't seem to be a winning strategy IMO, but hearing from an actual user of the stuff about temperatures would be most interesting.

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Where does the temperature run on your TR3, Ben?

 

The heat capacity of waterless coolant is definitely lower than water or water+glycol blend, and it's described as a route to letting temperatures get a lot hotter without boiling over. That doesn't seem to be a winning strategy IMO, but hearing from an actual user of the stuff about temperatures would be most interesting.

The temperature readng will of course just be that of the coolant. It won't tell you much as it wil be about the same. The interesting thing would be to know how much higher the temperature of the engine innards is compared to the same reading with water.

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The temperature readng will of course just be that of the coolant. It won't tell you much as it wil be about the same. The interesting thing would be to know how much higher the temperature of the engine innards is compared to the same reading with water.

The hottest running regions will be the exhaust valve seats, and waterless will increase their running temperature. And the temperature of the narrow bridge between cylinders where ev are adjacent- that can erode in the 6pots.

How much hotter? - dunno. But its unlikely to be a marginal increase as waterless has half the heat capacity and is 4-fold more viscous than the watery antifreeze. Its hardly designed to flush away the heat effectively. - rather the opposite.

Peter

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Although the relevance of what the temperature gauge says has been questioned it sits happily at "185" - unless I forget to switch on the manually operated fan which I only have to do in town.

 

The Evans was installed in August 2013 at c.30k miles. It endured a trip to Spain with temperatures of 38 degrees without overheating (but did suffer from fuel vaporisation).

 

The car is now at 32.5k miles and despite this thread making me wobble I think I will stick with it for now. I am not planning to thrash it (it's been there done that in the past!) until I get to know it better.

 

................................After all what am I going to to with 5 litres of used gunky liquid that everyone on here seems to view as the spawn of Satan!! :wacko:

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  • 4 weeks later...

After the fan belt went (overtightened - lesson) and losing half the contents of the radiator as we overheated, I can vouch for the practicalities of not using Evans.

 

But are there any benefits of using one of the "water wetters" as claiming better heat transfer? eg Millers OIls - Extra Cool?

 

Phil

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  • 4 years later...

Hello Ben. I just bought some Evans waterless. Just wanted to check in with you to see if you're still happy using it in the tr3. I have a us spec tr6 and living in Dubai for 17 years. I've added an extra fan infront of the radiator which I can turn on as needed so am hoping to start the flush tomorrow

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Waterless coolant is probably ok if your cooling system is in good condition- if the rad isn’t in good condition you may push the heat transfer limits.

If you don’t get all of the water out then the anti corrosion benefits are reduced.

It is flammable.

It is expensive.

Regular antifreeze water mix is fine but the corrosion preventative pack means it needs flushing and replacing every 2 years.

Modern red antifreeze lasts longer because it has a different anti corrosion pack, but there are concerns about the impact on some of the metals in older cars and if mixed with the older type of antifreeze it can cause gelling.

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4 hours ago, EdCapaldi said:

Hello Ben. I just bought some Evans waterless. Just wanted to check in with you to see if you're still happy using it in the tr3. I have a us spec tr6 and living in Dubai for 17 years. I've added an extra fan infront of the radiator which I can turn on as needed so am hoping to start the flush tomorrow

Perfectly happy Ed, the engine has been rebuilt since that post, so I know that all the coolant channels are pure and have no gunk, and the radiator is new. I have every confidence in it and Revingtons who did the work were happy to refill with it without question (not because they sold it- I provided it from my stock, before some wag suggests that they would wouldn’t they!). One point I would make is that if there is the slightest weep or leak in the system it will find it......hence my new radiator!

Its like Marmite- I love it, many don’t. There is a more flammable substance circulating under the bonnet.........but I concede the expense, but it is fit and forget.

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I have always used 4Life, it isn’t waterless, but keeps the dreaded rust at bay.  It also allows the engine to run a touch cooler, whatever any of the keyboard scientists say.  They do a liter size which is handy for carrying in the boot.  If you drain it can be reused. 10 yr warrant and colors in event off contamination (head gasket). I have no connection but would recommend.

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"It also allows the engine to run a touch cooler, whatever any of the keyboard scientists say."

Well I'm not a scientist, but those of us who ARE scientists say that water carries more heat away from surfaces than Glycol OR Evans waterless (which is mainly glycol) ergo water cools more effectively than all other coolant aids and the engine WILL run colder with water.

Also many tuning firms who specialise in rolling road work where engines DO get run to the limits of their heat envelope say they WON'T run cars with Evans or other "waterless" coolants, and that a water and normal anti freeze mix gives the best engine cooling properties. The measured temp of the coolant NOT being an accurate measurement of what the engine temperature actually is, just because the coolant isn't spewing out of the overflows doesn't mean the engine has actually been cooled adequately by it.  

Perhaps you want to "duke" it out with them ? I'll get my popcorn. 

Mick Richards 

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