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AlexB

Number Plates question (1973 TR6 - back to black )

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Colleagues of the TR6 Collective...

 

I have a CR series TR6, 1973 (August). Have been tempted on occasion to fit the "olde" black/silver plates as opposed to the rather naff (in my view) white/yellow/black post Jan 1973 ones.

 

I have seen a reasonable number of "classic" M and N reg cars with such plates (nothing after that though).

 

Insurance advise that they have no issues with it in terms of affecting insurance.

 

Technically, it probably is "incorrect". I have seen modern cars with supremely "mangled" numbering (usually to spell initials or naughty words) none of which seem to attract much attention from the hard pressed constabulary.

 

So with that, is it "worth doing" or just not worth whatever residual risk it creates ? Is a classic car with the wrong colour numberplate (by 8 months) an "outlaw".

 

Would welcome what will probably be some very divergent views/opinions.

 

Thanks

 

Alex

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Hi Alex,

this one came up a few months ago.

I think an issue arose from the DVLA -

one department said you can, based on the zero road tax for '74 (or is it '75 cars).

Another said you can't as it is part of a statute - Jan 1973.

 

Not sure what the definitive answer was.

 

Roger

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I believe it is up to 1972, so Roger's second opinion should be correct. That's what it used to be before the free road tax came about! You might get away with it if your car is 'L' registered.

 

 

Cheers John

Edited by John390

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Only vehicle I ever bought brand new was a bike, a Honda 750 Four. Registered 1st august 1973, NFD 643 M, and had silver/black plates, so was right for that period.

post-1226-0-28209500-1448997010_thumb.jpg

Edited by Les

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Thanks gentlemen. It is that "old" end-of-1972 into early-1974 issue again which seems clear, then murky, then not quite so clear.

 

Les... I recall 1973 motorcycles with M reg being sent out from dealers with black/silver plates also.

 

An old friend (ex traffic police) advised me that many of the younger officers serving today weren't even born in 1973.

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Decembers Practical Classics reports -

 

Black Plates Match Exemption

 

"The DVLA has announced that traditional black number plates with white or silver lettering will now be tied to historic taxation status.

The plates were formally replaced by reflective plates in 1972 one month before the previous January 1973 historic taxation cutoff. The new ruling will see the legalisation of black plates on cars that would not have originally worn them in period"

 

Page 9

 

Does not include 2 year old black Range Rover sports driving 2 feet behind you.........

 

Matt

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Classic car buyer issue 18th nov 2015,page 4

DVLA update-

With historic vehicle excise duty now on a rolling scale,your classic can legally wear black and silver plates when it turns 40.

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It would seem that half the contributors to this forum want to make their cars brighter (safer!) at night by fitting super duper LED lights and daytime running lights,whilst the other half want to make their cars less visible at night by doing away with what adds to the visibility,especially of a parked/broken down, vehicle. IMO anything that improves other drivers awareness of my vehicle(s) either by day or night is OK.

For what it's worth Construction and Use legislation states that vehicles registered on or after the 1st January 1973 must have reflective number plates,white to the front and yellow to the rear with black letters/numerals.

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Would welcome what will probably be some very divergent views/opinions.

 

I think that it reflects (sic) the image that the owner wishes to portray and the desire for something that wasn't appropriate when first registered, so in my divergent view, it is to say the least, "naff".

 

Below is a link for the vain
:wub:

 

Regards

 

Bill

 

https://insidedvla.blog.gov.uk/2015/11/17/whats-the-story-with-black-and-silver-number-plates/

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Vehicles built before 1st January 1975. The 'rolling' 40 year birthday laid out in the revised status for Historic Vehicle Duty (VED established in last year's Budget) has made 'silver and whites' legal.

 

Dave

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I wouldn't base any legal position on info contained in Practical Classics or their editorial stable-mates.

 

If you are worried just stick to reflective plates on anything first registered on/after 1st Aug '73 - but for all practical purposes I doubt you'd have any issues running black/silver plates on anything that is tax-exempt.

 

Just keep the old ones to pop back on the car for an hour in the event of an over-zealous MOT inspector.

 

...... Andy

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Opinions were asked for! so - I'd fit the type of plates it would most likely have had when new, which assume would be raised black plastic letters on white or yellow reflective background on an aluminium plate. Least that's what I fitted, as that's what my Dad's new Wolseley 6 had in 1973!

 

Like http://www.tippersvintageplates.co.uk/phdi/p1.nsf/supppages/tippers?opendocument&part=3

 

Though once the TR6 was MOTd for first time in this country, I could then get a registration, and then ordered plates. But had to wait! These weren't an over the counter numberplate. Wanted to drive it! So I made some, temporarily (which weren't of course reflective, but didn't go out at night and didn't get stopped). Comments were, well, very nice Harvey, but did the budget run out before you bought some numberplates?

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If I read all these replies correctly (very interesting ones too :) ) a car registered after 1 Jan 1973 and before 1 Jan 1975 can be shod in whatever number plate combo the owner feels and could be according to the day of the week.... the DVLA document would appear to mean precisely that. How unusual and unexpected.

 

This has been a very informative thread. I think that the mere fact that the rolling historic class permits the transition back to a black/silver plate (if the owner so wishes) does indicate that the government itself is trying to encourage a sense of "historic".

 

Thanks everyone who replied.... every opinion duly welcomed and advances knowledge/understanding which is itself the whole point of a forum I guess.

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I think that the mere fact that the rolling historic class permits the transition back to a black/silver plate (if the owner so wishes) does indicate that the government itself is trying to encourage a sense of "historic".

 

 

I don't believe it does.

 

Black number plates have got nothing to do with VED and everything to do with 'Construction and Use'. Until the C&U legislation is amended this will continue to be a 'grey area'.

 

But then where would forum debate be without grey areas :D

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FWIW my previous 4a (late car registered 6 mths after the end of production in 67) was a one owner low mileage car and was still wearing its original Hills number plates that were reflective, I would stay with construction and use regs until proved otherwise.

Black and silver plates are still issued on Jersey/Guernsey I believe.

Stuart.

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Oh well that's me in trouble again! My Aug 74 automobile has black and silver plates, because I think they look better!

Standing by for the sh1t to be thrown! ;-)

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Hi Daven!

 

DVLA told me that any vehicle made from or after 1.1.73 has to have reflective number plates. If you have an on the ball MOT test centre they will fail your vehicle for this point, as I saw once happen!

 

Bruce.

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There are lots of mentions about what DVLA has said on this subject............

 

As indicated in some posts above, they (DVLA) do NOT set the law, they only administer and apply it where vehicle use & SORN etc is concerned.

 

The present chancellor saw fit to adjust the duty which created the 40 year rolling exemptions which DVLA are now obliged to apply - any connection with number plates will require a legal update to match - maybe DVLA would support this action but its not their decision to make alone.

 

My conclusion is that fitting black plates to a later classic which now comes under the 40 year exemption is non-compliant with the present law.

 

Bob

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Bob,

 

I am not certain exactly where you are coming from?

 

I bought my car in Feb. 1973 new and when I went to pick it up I saw it had reflective number plates. This I queried and was handed a DVLA notification i.e. read this? That was the end of the matter. Also, the classic car historical status at this time did not exist? It was over another 20+ years away.

 

Bruce.

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Bob,

 

I am not certain exactly where you are coming from?

 

I bought my car in Feb. 1973 new and when I went to pick it up I saw it had reflective number plates. This I queried and was handed a DVLA notification i.e. read this? That was the end of the matter. Also, the classic car historical status at this time did not exist? It was over another 20+ years away.

 

Bruce.

That is still the case today which I think in a roundabout way is what Bob meant.

Stuart.

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Notwithstanding the grey area thrown up by the updating of the historical status, I think I'm right in saying that the Construction and Use Regulations permit black and silver plates on cars built before 1st January 1973, so the date of first registration is not relevant.

 

Cars were often built during the winter, as mine was, but only actually delivered to the first owner and registered in the following spring, so some cars registered early in 1973 would still be permitted black and silver plates if built in late 1972.

 

John

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BREAKING NEWS The DVLA has confirmed that all vehicles registered as Historic Vehicles for taxation can now use our classic plates, so currently this means any vehicle registered before 1st January 1975 can now have black & silver (or white) plates. BREAKING NEWS

 

It is optional - you can still use your reflective plates if you like.

Edited by Dave Smith

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Posted Today, 04:57 PM

BREAKING NEWS The DVLA has confirmed that all vehicles registered as Historic Vehicles for taxation can now use our classic plates, so currently this means any vehicle registered before 1st January 1975 can now have black & silver (or white) plates. BREAKING NEWS

 

Hardly breaking news as from the vanity link I posted yesterday:

Vehicles that can display black and silver plates

Since April 2015 vehicles manufactured before 1 January 1975 can display the older style plates. You must:

  • have applied to DVLA, and
  • be registered within the ‘historic vehicles’ tax class.

This allows your vehicle to retain its authenticity and be in keeping with its age.

Vehicles constructed 40 or more years ago are exempt from vehicle tax.

 

 

The and is interesting as it suggests that both criteria of applying to DVLA and being registered within the historic class is necessary. Has anyone registered as historic actually applied to the DVLA to display the older type plates?

 

Regards

 

Bill

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Hi Stuart

You are spot on.

 

BLACK PLATE WITH WHITE, SILVER OR LIGHT GREY DIGITS:- These may only be displayed on vehicles manufactured prior to 1st January 1976.

 

Assuming ones car passed the DVS entry to Jersey test!

 

I Think TR6 look better with Black and a White / Grey Number plates.

 

Above or in front of the bumper at the front, of course.

Who would be stupid enough to block the air intake to the engine.

The TR 6,was designed for the USA they don't have front number plates, methinks.

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