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  • 3 years later...

Evening All,

                      Thought I should resurrect this topic (my last comments back in Dec 2015) as this winter I bit-the-bullet and dropped the diff out of my TR6 for inspection. Turned out my rear end vibrations and rumbles were indeed from the diff, even though it had been rebuilt by a company for the previous owner.  

Once it was stripped down, whilst the crown-wheel and pinion were in good condition (they should have been as they were replaced at the last rebuild 15k miles ago) none of the bearings were in good condition for re-use. As suspected the side (drive shaft) ball bearings were the noisiest. However the cage carrier bearings were not great, and even though it can been seen that the two pinion bearings were replaced at the last re-build they had small pits/roughness on the surfaces too. Anecdotally (just looking at discolouration) it seems that only the pinion bearings were replaced at the previous rebuild, though can't be sure. Perhaps it was done on a budget.

So in short all 6 bearings were replaced, the diff rebuilt and setup and I'm glad to now report that its lovely and quiet. No rumbles, no vibrations and no whines either. An excellent result all round. The car is now lovely to drive at cruising speeds, I perhaps should have taken the plunge earlier...

As several people seem to have had differential rebuild issues in the past, people may be interested to know that I used TES Transmissions in Westbury, Wilts for the re-build (mainly as they were local to me). Whilst they do all the modern cars, they have a person with classic knowledge too (ask for Mark). He seemed to know quite a bit about Triumph diffs. I was also encouraged by their clean, organised bays in the workshop (a good sign of professionalism to me). To confirm, I have no link to the business other than a happy satisfied customer.

Cheers, J. 

 

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Hi Gents,

       Thanks for the comments and glad update useful. 

Mike C - I don't know off hand what make of bearings they used, but I have an email address for Mark at TES, so I'll ask him. 

Cheers, J.

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1 hour ago, jamesStag said:

Hi Gents,

       Thanks for the comments and glad update useful. 

Mike C - I don't know off hand what make of bearings they used, but I have an email address for Mark at TES, so I'll ask him. 

Cheers, J.

Thanks. The reason I ask is that there are a lot of bad bearing suppliers out there. I have my preferred suppliers-Timken, SKF, NSK - I'm just interested if there are any other good manufacturers  in case I ever get stuck looking for a particular bearing. 

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On 3/20/2019 at 11:12 PM, jamesStag said:

Evening All,

                      Thought I should resurrect this topic (my last comments back in Dec 2015) as this winter I bit-the-bullet and dropped the diff out of my TR6 for inspection. Turned out my rear end vibrations and rumbles were indeed from the diff, even though it had been rebuilt by a company for the previous owner.  

Once it was stripped down, whilst the crown-wheel and pinion were in good condition (they should have been as they were replaced at the last rebuild 15k miles ago) none of the bearings were in good condition for re-use. As suspected the side (drive shaft) ball bearings were the noisiest. However the cage carrier bearings were not great, and even though it can been seen that the two pinion bearings were replaced at the last re-build they had small pits/roughness on the surfaces too. Anecdotally (just looking at discolouration) it seems that only the pinion bearings were replaced at the previous rebuild, though can't be sure. Perhaps it was done on a budget.

So in short all 6 bearings were replaced, the diff rebuilt and setup and I'm glad to now report that its lovely and quiet. No rumbles, no vibrations and no whines either. An excellent result all round. The car is now lovely to drive at cruising speeds, I perhaps should have taken the plunge earlier...

As several people seem to have had differential rebuild issues in the past, people may be interested to know that I used TES Transmissions in Westbury, Wilts for the re-build (mainly as they were local to me). Whilst they do all the modern cars, they have a person with classic knowledge too (ask for Mark). He seemed to know quite a bit about Triumph diffs. I was also encouraged by their clean, organised bays in the workshop (a good sign of professionalism to me). To confirm, I have no link to the business other than a happy satisfied customer.

Cheers, J. 

 

Hi James!

I think that you have hit the nail on the head by replacing all the bearings at the same time and TES probably only use proper bearings of known manufacture like SKF or similar. There are too many elcheapo ones out there or copies. You only have to read some of the posts on this Forum. I caught Moss out selling copies,  ones which they withdrew when I threaten to tell the OEM that they were selling copies and they would face prosecution. They were made in China of course.

Bruce.

 

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22 hours ago, astontr6 said:

 I caught Moss out selling copies,  ones which they withdrew when I threaten to tell the OEM that they were selling copies and they would face prosecution. They were made in China of course.

Bruce.

 

Wow Bruce,

that is a serious issue. Are you saying Moss did not want to withdraw before you threatened them?

Waldi

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Afternoon Mike & All,

        Had a reply from TES, they have fitted new Timken brand bearings in the diff. 

In terms of setup, he did comment that its key to get the backlash setup correctly to get a quiet diff, and that can take some patience. 

In my case I'm quite 'spanners-capable' so took my diff out and dropped it in to Westbury. However TES did say that for those who don't have the facilities or knowledge, they offer a drive-in service and will remove a diff or gearbox for refurb and refit afterwards. Obviously that takes more than a day so the car needs to be left with them. 

Cheers for now,

J.

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Don't forget, all the bearing manufacturers make different grades of bearing for different jobs with what looks like the same part number.

So you could pay £10 or £50 for what appears to be the same bearing from the same manufacturer. They are both top quality for the job in hand, but different jobs.

Study the part number carefully. EG in the diff there is a bearing. The correct one is suffix SR and costs ££££. Without the SR it is only £.

I believe that Timken actually have part numbers approved by TRiumph

Use what TRiumph recommend.

Roger

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Hi Roger,

                That's interesting I didn't know about different grades of bearing for different jobs. I don't know which part numbers TES fitted, but I trust they have fitted what should be used. From what I've learnt they've been in the transmission game for decades.  Like all things only time will tell, but so far so good I'm glad to report.

Cheers, J. 

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On 3/24/2019 at 7:46 AM, Waldi said:

Wow Bruce,

that is a serious issue. Are you saying Moss did not want to withdraw before you threatened them?

Waldi

Moss tried to argue that people would not pay the price for a OEM brand? But how many times do you want to do the same job? It was a set of wheel bearings which  only lasted 1500miles the quality was ****. I got my money back and went to a local bearing distributor near where I live and they surprised me by having OEM bearings in stock and the felt seals fitted perfectly. They also have been subject to bad press on this forum. The company that I went to is called BRT and they do kitting for most cars here in the UK. A point that I should have already highlighted is that SKF were the BL OEM and not all the original diff bearings made by them are available any more??? TR6's have some specials and I wonder if this fact is now causing problems with diffs. 

Bruce.

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I'll bet no roller bearings were specifically made for Standard Triumph. Like most, if not all car manufacturers at the time, they would have designed around the standard roller  bearings available from the reputable suppliers. And, from my recollections at the time, each supplier's bearing would have had an equivalent from the other suppliers.

I suspect that 50 years ago all UK  roller bearing supplier's would have been reputable- the day of the cheap ,dodgy supplier had not arrived.

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8 hours ago, astontr6 said:

Moss tried to argue that people would not pay the price for a OEM brand? But how many times do you want to do the same job? It was a set of wheel bearings which  only lasted 1500miles the quality was ****. I got my money back and went to a local bearing distributor near where I live and they surprised me by having OEM bearings in stock and the felt seals fitted perfectly. They also have been subject to bad press on this forum. The company that I went to is called BRT and they do kitting for most cars here in the UK. A point that I should have already highlighted is that SKF were the BL OEM and not all the original diff bearings made by them are available any more??? TR6's have some specials and I wonder if this fact is now causing problems with diffs. 

Bruce.

Hi Bruce,

thank you.

Selling a cheap copy product in an original brand box (like with the “SKF” bearings that are on the market) is fraud. Especially if the vendor is aware of this.

Selling unbranded products that have the same dimensions (cheap aftermarket products) is not forbidden, but most of us avoid using them if we have a choise.

About diff whining being related to bearing quality, that is an interesting thought. I never understood why this is such a difficult job, where so may fail to get a silent diff after repair. It would mean that these bearings really would have to wear out to increase clearances, thereby affecting gear-adjustment.

Best regards,

Waldi

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2 hours ago, Mike C said:

Bearing suppliers to the engineering industry are very careful not to sell sub standard products at any price. It would quickly drive them out of business.

Hi Mike you are correct. But substandard bearings have been a major issue in the TR world for years and I complained to the Register 20 years ago and all I got was a load of BS, but I did upset the then owners of Moss That's why I have become very particular as to what makes I will accept. 2 years ago I had my Gearbox and O/D rebuilt by ORS and there is a bearing in there that costs £110 which I accepted , I did not go for the elcheapo one?

Bruce.

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I bought a replacement SKF front wheel bearing for my Mazda CX9, it was made in China so suspecting a fake, did some research. I found that SKF have a factory in China, so not all Chinese products are fake!

Graeme

 

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On 3/28/2019 at 6:19 AM, Waldi said:

Hi Bruce,

thank you.

Selling a cheap copy product in an original brand box (like with the “SKF” bearings that are on the market) is fraud. Especially if the vendor is aware of this.

Selling unbranded products that have the same dimensions (cheap aftermarket products) is not forbidden, but most of us avoid using them if we have a choise.

About diff whining being related to bearing quality, that is an interesting thought. I never understood why this is such a difficult job, where so may fail to get a silent diff after repair. It would mean that these bearings really would have to wear out to increase clearances, thereby affecting gear-adjustment.

Best regards,

Waldi

Hi Waldi !

Over the years I have caught Moss out  on many items, my last big ruck with them was over lay shafts being soft. One Forum member thanked me for pointing this out as his gear box failed within 500miles and it had been repaired by none other than the Gear box Guru??? He was not a happy camper! nor it seems are owners in Essex, as per TR Action, who seem to have had the same problem.

Bruce.

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On 11/25/2015 at 4:14 PM, Bill Bourne said:

Hi Simon

 

Ditto... mines just been re-built and I've only done about 1,000 miles. So I'm taking mine out again this weekend and then back to the re-builder next Friday 4th.

I'm told that it could possibly just need re-shimming and after a re-build, that is a strong possibility. I hope so. If not I'm not sure, I guess crown wheel and pinion is at fault.

Like you. mine only whines (not too loudly though) when travelling at a medium/constant speed.

 

Best Bill

Hi Bill,

The original shims were made to a very tight specification by a company on Slough Trading Estate. It was near 100% inspection on every shim and the burr limit was only .0005" as BL had major complaints about whining. These shims were not just steel washers?? I did my fair share of checking them when I was an apprentice.

Bruce.

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On 11/25/2015 at 4:14 PM, Bill Bourne said:

Hi Simon

 

Ditto... mines just been re-built and I've only done about 1,000 miles. So I'm taking mine out again this weekend and then back to the re-builder next Friday 4th.

I'm told that it could possibly just need re-shimming and after a re-build, that is a strong possibility. I hope so. If not I'm not sure, I guess crown wheel and pinion is at fault.

Like you. mine only whines (not too loudly though) when travelling at a medium/constant speed.

 

Best Bill

Hi Bill,

The original shims were made to a very tight specification by a company on Slough Trading Estate. It was near 100% inspection on every shim and the burr limit was only .0005" as BL had major complaints about whining. These shims were not just steel washers?? I did my fair share of checking them when I was an apprentice.

Bruce.

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