RogerH Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 (edited) Hi Folks I've just bought a Clarke CES500 engine stand. It should take the weight of the engine (227Kg). It all looks very good. However I've got a snag. Where/How does it attach? Does it really pick up on the engine/gearbox bolts/screws. These are 5/16UNC - they look mighty small to me. I can use a starter motor hole (3/8"). If it is the 5/16unc - where does one obtain bolts long enough. I see that Moss only go up to 3" I can imagine Wickes doing Hi-tensile UNC. Any ideas please Roger PS - I've just found that Moss do 4" long by 5/16"unc. Edited November 20, 2015 by RogerH Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lebro Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 Roger. I believe that these stands do indeed only connect using 4 or so bolts into the rear gbox mounting flange. I have always thought that was a bit iffy. Bob. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RobH Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 The attached table shows the tensile strength of HT fasteners (Ameerican spec.) You can see that just one 5/16 bolt of the lowest grade can easily support the whole engine weight for a straight tensile load. http://www.almabolt.com/pages/catalog/bolts/proofloadtensile.htm You might find long ones at Namrick - they list up to 5". Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Don H. Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 (edited) Here's a group of engines on stands at Macy's Garage (one of the most well known TR restorers in the US), taken a couple of years ago. Click to enlarge. Here's my engine with the stand mount still attached as I dropped it off at Mark's place for rebuilding. As I recall, I bought Grade 5 or Grade 8 bolts for mounting to the block. They were well over anything required, but the cost difference was pretty small at my local hardware store and the threads are often formed better. Edited November 20, 2015 by Don H. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
iain Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 HI Roger I went through the same dilemma earlier this year, yes they work, I bought HT bolts from Namrick. I did not use the starter motor hole, just 4 bolts with the most even spacing I could get. I checked with al-sorts of people first and came to the conclusion I was being a whimp! It worked fine it just looks all wrong ! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Alec Pringle Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 Hi Roger, I have the same stand, no problem with wet liner 4, slant 4, 6 cylinder TR, V8 Rover or 5- cylinder Audi. You'll be fine ! Cheers Alec Quote Link to post Share on other sites
john.r.davies Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 I felt exactly the same way as you, Roger. My solution was to use a spare rear engine plate, spAre because it came from a s Canted saloon engine. That allowed the use of all seven bolts into the block and the largest four stand bolts that will go through the stand tubes (7/16"?) I would post picture but I'm on my mobile. John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted November 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 Hi Folks, well that looks pretty conclusive. Many thanks for your comments. Looking at Rob's chart I think the normal Moss BH505321 bolts should be OK then. Great - tomorrow should show some movement. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Matt Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 Hi Folks, well that looks pretty conclusive. Many thanks for your comments. Looking at Rob's chart I think the normal Moss BH505321 bolts should be OK then. Great - tomorrow should show some movement. Roger Roger, Good luck i'm sure you'll have fun! Matt Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rogerguzzi Posted November 21, 2015 Report Share Posted November 21, 2015 (edited) Hello Roger I did as John says only I did not have a spare back plate so I used a sheet of aluminum. It helps to get the engine central on the stand. Roger ps I know its only a little engine but it allows for future engines and this is the one I got http://www.ebay.co.u...=STRK:MEBIDX:IT Edited November 21, 2015 by rogerguzzi Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted November 21, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 21, 2015 Hi Roger, that plate looks neat indeed. The basic stand is now attached and works OK. When the crank came out the CofG moved and was interesting to rotate but manageable. It is certainly a handy bit of kit for working on the engine. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lebro Posted November 21, 2015 Report Share Posted November 21, 2015 Note made - "Roger has an engine stand" hmmm could be usefull Bob. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ian Vincent Posted November 21, 2015 Report Share Posted November 21, 2015 Roger, I had exactly the same concerns when I 'did' my engine but as everyone else has said, it does work. I did put an old wooden beer crate under the engine to help support it though rather than have it hanging on the four skinny bolts for an extended period. Rgds Ian Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Don H. Posted November 21, 2015 Report Share Posted November 21, 2015 Note made - "Roger has an engine stand" hmmm could be usefull Bob. Hah! That's exactly what we do over here, too. Not that they're that expensive, but they take up garage real estate. They get passed around all the time in the local clubs. Engine hoists, too. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted November 21, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 21, 2015 Hi Ian, I thought about putting something somewhere but I haven't got anything that would not disintegrate on impact. Bob, we will have to discuss rental charges Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
peejay4A Posted November 21, 2015 Report Share Posted November 21, 2015 I have one which is available for borrowing. Similarly an engine crane. East Warwickshire. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SuzanneH Posted November 21, 2015 Report Share Posted November 21, 2015 Hi Ian, I thought about putting something somewhere but I haven't got anything that would not disintegrate on impact. Roger, what about dads old ammo' box? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Alec Pringle Posted November 21, 2015 Report Share Posted November 21, 2015 That's one way to blow the illegal out of the garage, drop a wet liner on a box of ammo . . . . . . Meet Roger, the urban guerrilla . . . . . Cheers Alec Quote Link to post Share on other sites
john.r.davies Posted November 22, 2015 Report Share Posted November 22, 2015 I felt exactly the same way as you, Roger. My solution was to use a spare rear engine plate, spAre because it came from a s Canted saloon engine. That allowed the use of all seven bolts into the block and the largest four stand bolts that will go through the stand tubes (7/16"?) I would post picture but I'm on my mobile. John I would still post the picture from my PC, if it weren't for the miserly allowance of picture storage that this site provides. Sometimes I post trivia. No probs they can go in the delete bin. More often, I hope, I'm posting pictures that illustrate my words, help my argument and I hope others. Deleting them devalues my posts, so I'm reluctant to scratch them out. But I have a solution. In Another Triumph Place, My Lords, the allowance for pictures is UNLIMITED. For your interest, therefore, I have posted a pic of my adapted rear engine plate there. I hope it will be of interest to the users of that site too, which is a small excuse for abuse the privileges that users there have, and exposing the privations that users of the TRR site have to tolerate. Or not. See here: http://sideways-technologies.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic/7165-mounting-an-engine-on-a-stand/ John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mleadbeater Posted November 22, 2015 Report Share Posted November 22, 2015 FWIW, 5/16" Whitworth thread is essentially the same as UNC, and good hardware shops (or online suppliers) should stock threaded rod in this size at minimal cost, this is what I have used for years. Never had any problems with engine stands on many blocks, including Jaguar, Porsche, MG, Riley, and TR of course. Remember when tightening some bolts on the block you may put extra, and at some leverage, load on the mounting bolts, you may consider propping the block whilst you do so . Mike Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted November 22, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2015 Hi John, your most excellent ploy didn't work - it comes up as an error. Hi MIke, thanks for the BSW/UNC tip. if I were doing a number of engines I would sort out a plate with more attachments. I am just this one - probably the last I'll ever do. I think it is funny in an odd way that the four arms on the stand are attached by four 1/2" bolts. Yet the engine uses four x 5/16". Of these two are in shear and two in tension with a degree of twisting. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Motorsport Mickey Posted November 22, 2015 Report Share Posted November 22, 2015 And the force required to shear 2 x 5/16th UNC bolts is...wuss. The other 2 bolts in tension and twist go some way to evening out the forces, and even better than that is the product liability laws and CE certification that devices like these have to pass to be sold on the open market. If we were designing one from scratch we would use 3/8 or even 1/2" if we could get them in because we wouldn't bother with testing regimes, just go hopelessly over the top because it makes us feel better. Bolt it up, never required any more than 4 x 5/16th when used on my home made engine manipulator, as stated previously if putting 100 + lb ft on any bolt when tightening consider which way the torque is being applied and support the block and engine stand, more to prevent movement. Mick Richards Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TR NIALL Posted November 22, 2015 Report Share Posted November 22, 2015 I would still post the picture from my PC, if it weren't for the miserly allowance of picture storage that this site provides. Sometimes I post trivia. No probs they can go in the delete bin. More often, I hope, I'm posting pictures that illustrate my words, help my argument and I hope others. Deleting them devalues my posts, so I'm reluctant to scratch them out. But I have a solution. In Another Triumph Place, My Lords, the allowance for pictures is UNLIMITED. For your interest, therefore, I have posted a pic of my adapted rear engine plate there. I hope it will be of interest to the users of that site too, which is a small excuse for abuse the privileges that users there have, and exposing the privations that users of the TRR site have to tolerate. Or not. See here: http://sideways-technologies.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic/7165-mounting-an-engine-on-a-stand/ John Just to let people know,you must Log In to the Sideways Forum before you can see the Pictures,you may read the Posts OK but cannot view the Pics unless Logged in. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
john.r.davies Posted November 22, 2015 Report Share Posted November 22, 2015 A Thousand Curses!!!!!!! My fiendish plot would have worked if it hadn't been for those meddling kids! John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
littlejim Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 I added a rope from the stem to the handles. For some reason (Cof G) it didn't like to stop in the position I wanted working-on wise. The heavy bit kept wanting to be closest to the centre of the earth. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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