cotswold Posted November 14, 2015 Report Share Posted November 14, 2015 (edited) Hi Guys, Neil ferguson refurbished my injectors in my ongoing efforts to make the engine behave as it should (check list, Good Bosche pump unit, compression check good, new HT Leads, New electronic injection, new plugs, re-timed and it was still rough at slow speeds). I sent the injectors out to Neil and got back what looked like brand new bronze anodised injectors so lovely it is a shame to put them back in the block! However......I bolted the injectors back onto their feeding tubes and holding them all in the air (as I had read on a thread here to void air locks), I switched on the electrics.....Fuel pump charges but no fuel? so I used the ignition to tuen over the engine and waited for a little while still no fuel? Why not? I am wondering if it may be that the injector tubes were open to the air for a couple of weeks I have got an airlock, if so how can I clear it. I have come up for a cup of tea to ponder the issue before I do something I may regret! Over to you. Thanks Charles Edited November 14, 2015 by cotswold Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Marc R Posted November 14, 2015 Report Share Posted November 14, 2015 How long did you turn the engine with the starter? As per my experiences to put back the whole system under pressure up to the injectors you need to turn the engine for a long period of time (no specific value but ~ more then 3 to 5 minutes) Regards Quote Link to post Share on other sites
John L Posted November 14, 2015 Report Share Posted November 14, 2015 You could open the nut on the pipe at the injector that should let any air out of the pipe, you might have to crank the engine for a while. While holding the injector up in the air you need to pull on n***ple to let the air escape. John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Steves_TR6 Posted November 14, 2015 Report Share Posted November 14, 2015 It will take a while for the fuel to make all the way to the injectors if the pipes are empty. Perhaps take the plugs out to allo the engine to spin freely without draining the battery. Oh, and have a fire extinguisher handy, a big one :-) Steve Quote Link to post Share on other sites
snowric Posted November 14, 2015 Report Share Posted November 14, 2015 Charles, it took a while to bleed mine you have to crank the engine to get the fuel flowing to each injector. I put them all into a jar (using a cable tie to hold them) and took the plugs out, disconnected the ignition and span the engine until the injectors started to spray. One by one they cam to life, reinserted when 4 got there and recharged battery and started on four then bled the remainng two by pulling the little nipple at the end of them, holding upside down and tapped with a spanner. Snowy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest ntc Posted November 14, 2015 Report Share Posted November 14, 2015 No need to crank the engine. Disconnect the coil and leave the pump running 30 mins. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Marc R Posted November 14, 2015 Report Share Posted November 14, 2015 Hi Neil, Good comments and advise it make sense (Logic), stupid I am. I shall use this process next time on my PI. Regards Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RobinTR6 Posted November 14, 2015 Report Share Posted November 14, 2015 Neil is correct and its the easiest way to bleed so well worth trying. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
cotswold Posted November 14, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 14, 2015 Great great thanks I will try again tomorrow Cheers all Charles Quote Link to post Share on other sites
cotswold Posted November 14, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 14, 2015 BTW the NEC was brilliant this year, didn't see Moss there though which was a suprise....... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
peejay4A Posted November 14, 2015 Report Share Posted November 14, 2015 (edited) Getting back to your original observation Charles. The way I read it was that you expected to see fuel from the injectors with the pump running but with the engine stopped. If that's a correct reading then it won't happen. The engine needs to be turning in order for the MU rotor to turn and for the shuttle to deliver fuel to the injectors. If I got that wrong and you already knew that then I apologise. Edited November 14, 2015 by peejay4A Quote Link to post Share on other sites
snowric Posted November 14, 2015 Report Share Posted November 14, 2015 Neil, A bloody good suggestion and a lot easier than mine. I will try it next time. Snowy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest ntc Posted November 14, 2015 Report Share Posted November 14, 2015 And to add on don't mess with the injectors,soft start it by spraying brake cleaner in the intake and it will bleed itself. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
cotswold Posted November 14, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 14, 2015 Hi Neil, so just to get it right are you saying, Spray brake cleaner into the engine Fit the injectors into the engine unbled Unhook the coil Let the pump run for 30 mins but no need to turn the engine? Charles Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest ntc Posted November 14, 2015 Report Share Posted November 14, 2015 (edited) No Charles Let the pump run first as above if it fires all well and good if not ? connect the low feed back to the coil and get someone else to spray in the cleaner air intake and it will start and clear itself. Edited November 14, 2015 by ntc Quote Link to post Share on other sites
marki Posted November 15, 2015 Report Share Posted November 15, 2015 Hi All. I spoke to Neil Ferguson on this and he's way is as NTC has said. Hang the injectors connected to the pipes from a bungee from the bonnet catch. Disconnect coil turn ignition on and go and have a large cup of tea, as each injector starts to dribble fit it back into the throttle bodies when all done fire up and test. Be aware this can take 1/2 hr plus. This method has always worked for me, just don't try and rush it. Good luck Mark Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jobster Posted November 15, 2015 Report Share Posted November 15, 2015 (edited) .........While holding the injector up in the air you need to pull on n***ple to let the air escape.John. Don't. You'll most likely ruin them! Edited November 15, 2015 by jobster Quote Link to post Share on other sites
cotswold Posted November 15, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 15, 2015 Getting back to your original observation Charles. The way I read it was that you expected to see fuel from the injectors with the pump running but with the engine stopped. If that's a correct reading then it won't happen. The engine needs to be turning in order for the MU rotor to turn and for the shuttle to deliver fuel to the injectors. If I got that wrong and you already knew that then I apologise. Thanks I will try what Mike suggests above since if the injectors dribble that seems to be because it creeps past the metering unit without it functioning, must confess I don't know enough to make intelligent informed decisions but no harm can come from trying that approach and it did work for some. Charles Quote Link to post Share on other sites
cotswold Posted November 15, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 15, 2015 (edited) Hello all, Well spent the whole morning on the engine. The bungee support from the bonnet, disconnecting the coil and letting the fuel pump run worked a treat. As Mike said each one started to drip and as they did I inserted them into the block. After 15 mins all had wept so bolted up and started. After about 2 mins the engine was running as good as it had been before I sent the injectors to Neil. Hmmmmm . Given that I bought the car with a misfire at low revs I am starting to think the old boy I bought it from had labled the injector leads incorrectly. I decided the undo them all again and see where the lenghts suggested they should be I have now managed to get it running better with the 5&6 swapped and re-tuned to 4 BTDC but at low revs it still runs rough as if a couple more injector leads were misplaced. I have looked at the metering unit and wonder if any of you could let me know the firing order by looking at it. At the moment if I look at the metering unit there are two pipes that come from beneath it. The Left one goes to 3 and the Right one goes to 4. Above those and nearest to you standing there the Left goes to 1 and the Right goes to 5. Over the top now and nearest to the engine the Left one goes to 2 and the Right one goes to 6. Please could one of you go and look at their set up and let me know if any of these are wrong in order or firing sequence. Thanks Exasperated Charles Edited November 15, 2015 by cotswold Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest ntc Posted November 15, 2015 Report Share Posted November 15, 2015 (edited) The brown book says 5 and 6 is wrong ? Edited November 15, 2015 by ntc Quote Link to post Share on other sites
cotswold Posted November 15, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 15, 2015 Darn it those were the ones I thought were wrong in the first place so I swapped them over the lableing was probably OK then if the others are correct? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest ntc Posted November 15, 2015 Report Share Posted November 15, 2015 Yes. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Blue cedar Posted November 15, 2015 Report Share Posted November 15, 2015 ?????? 4 degrees BTDC. Why not as stated in the Haynes manual ? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
peejay4A Posted November 15, 2015 Report Share Posted November 15, 2015 Charles, Without going over your posts passim might I suggest that a compression and leak down test is now in order? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
astontr6 Posted November 15, 2015 Report Share Posted November 15, 2015 If you look at the injector pipes where they connect to the injector they have numbers from 1 to 6 stamped on one of the flats of the square section? Regarding starting, I do the same as Neil but also back fill the black injector pipes with petrol before screwing on the injector. When I changed all my injectors 2 seasons ago I had my car running in under 10mins! Bruce. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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