Keith66 Posted November 12, 2015 Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 Hi All Just about to get my repainted Tr6 back in the next week or two, if they finish on time!! Its a rolling chassis complete with suspension, engine gearbox etc, but a completly bare body, so still lots of work to do. The only place for it to go is my mom's 60's built garage. Its not really bad but it does get slightly damp as it has a slab floor (i assume on soil) not solid concrete. When i've left bare metal in the before it does eventually rust but things don't end up wet. So is a de-humidifier a good idea or am i wasting my time and money. Does anyone have any experience using on and what sort of capacity is needed. Cheers Keith Quote Link to post Share on other sites
John Bracher Posted November 12, 2015 Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 Hi Keith. Had a similar situation a few years back with a rented precast concrete garage. Unless you can get a HUGE dehumidifier, if the slab floor is over soil, I think you will be fighting a ( very expensive) losing battle!! I ended up putting a 'damp proof' floor down, made from a pvc sheet tarpaulin, with a thin 'skin' of concrete over it. Kept the damp out! This I know, because when I gave the garage up, I took the layer up, and it was like a pond underneath!!! Worth a go, cost next to nothing! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Motorsport Mickey Posted November 12, 2015 Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 Stick a Carcoon in there. About mid £200 used from e bay (mine was £240) don't get confused and think because it's in a damp environment it can only circulate damp air. What causes the rusting is the swing in temperature from what heating occurs in the day and the plunge in temperature which happens at night, it breeches the "dew point". That causes condensation on metal surfaces which obviously rusts. The Carcoon by circulation between the outer and inner atmospheres prevents the large variation in temperature and hence the dew point forming condensation on the metal surfaces. The cost after buying ? about £20 a year, the fans used are only computer sized 150mm dia using milliamps. You can wash the car and put it inside damp and the carcoon will dry it for you, the brake discs don't even get discoloured never mind rust. Mick Richards Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TR5tar Posted November 12, 2015 Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 (edited) He Keith, When I first got my TR, I investigated the relative merits of a dehumidifier Vs an indoor Carcoon, and came to the conclusion that the dehumidifier was the best route for me, given the type of garage I have (double skinned, double glazed, solid concrete floor, attached to the house), although the Carcoon option might work better for your garage. There's a good discussion of the subject on this thread - http://www.tr-register.co.uk/forums/index.php?/topic/48959-preparing-for-snowmageddon/?hl=snow It seems that the main thing with a dehumidifier is to make certain that it's a desiccant type, because non-desiccant types stop working below about 5C I'm told. And so, if your garage is likely to fall below 5C in the winter, the non-desiccant type isn't going to be of help. I bought an Ecoair DD122FW Classic MK5 (612W full blast, just over 360W economy mode). It works pretty well in my double garage. When I bought the dehumidifier I received a digital Relative Humidity (RH) gauge, which you'll need to make sure that the dehumidifier is doing the job. As I understand things, if you can get the RH to 55% or below, then there's little chance of breeching the dew point, regardless of the temperature. I found this useful Dew Point Calculator - http://www.dpcalc.org/ As Mick says, it's the fluctuation between the daytime and night time temperature (times when temperatures are either rising or falling) that can cause the problems, so I run my dehumidifier from about 4pm until about 9 or 10 in the morning, to keep the RH at safe levels. Also, I park the car on a large tarpaulin to stop damp that might rise from the concrete floor. Cheers, Darren Edited November 13, 2015 by TR5tar Quote Link to post Share on other sites
North London Mike Posted November 13, 2015 Report Share Posted November 13, 2015 He Keith, When I first got my TR, I investigated the relative merits of a dehumidifier Vs an indoor Carcoon, and came to the conclusion that the dehumidifier was the best route for me, given the type of garage I have (double skinned, double glazed, solid concrete floor, attached to the house), although the Carcoon option might work better for your garage. There's a good discussion of the subject on this thread - http://www.tr-regist...r-snowmageddon/ It seems that the main thing with a dehumidifier is to make certain that it's a desiccant type, because non-desiccant types stop working below about 5C I'm told. And so, if your garage is likely to fall below 5C in the winter, the non-desiccant type isn't going to be of help. I bought an Ecoair DD122FW Classic MK5 (612W full blast, just over 360W economy mode). It works pretty well in my double garage. When I bought the dehumidifier I received a digital Relative Humidity (RH) gauge, which you'll need to make sure that the dehumidifier is doing the job. As I understand things, if you can get the RH to 55% or below, then there's little chance of breeching the dew point, regardless of the temperature. I found this useful Dew Point Calculator - http://www.dpcalc.org/ As Mick says, it's the fluctuation between the daytime and night time temperature (times when temperatures are either rising or falling) that can cause the problems, so I run my dehumidifier from about 4pm until about 9 or 10 in the morning, to keep the RH at safe levels. Also, I park the car on a large tarpaulin to stop damp that might rise from the concrete floor. Cheers, Darren Agree with Darren I have a desiccant type, run it 24/ 7 from Nov to March, works down to zero, provides moderate heating (no snow on the roof directly above it) and collects 2 litres of water every 36 hours in peak season. Haven't the room to run a carcoon and have a single concrete garage. Left LNK in there one year with nothing, surface rust on most untreated surfaces and damp/ wet steel cross members in the roof. However, with the dehumidifier running, all bone dry, no issues. I wouldn't risk a winter without one We know what the cars are worth, why skimp ? Do everything you can.......... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Marc R Posted November 13, 2015 Report Share Posted November 13, 2015 (edited) Hi Keith, The garage you are mentioning is (i) a temporary facility to work on the car or (ii) a long term place to park/stock your car ? - If it is to work on the car (Short/medium terms): I doubt the indoor carcoon will provide also enough space around to work on, inside and under the car (and I do not consider the issues/constraints related to the work shop/tools storage in/out...). In this case I recommend as a 1st action, at least, to install a plastic/pvc sheet (isolation material) on the floor and then you may improve with a dehumidifier desiccant type . - If it is to park/stock the car (long term): The indoor carcoon can be the solution. Regards Edited November 13, 2015 by Marc R Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RobH Posted November 13, 2015 Report Share Posted November 13, 2015 My brick garage is big enought for two small cars and a workshop area with lathe etc, so a carcoon is not the answer for me. Like Darren and Mike, I have a small dessicant dehumidifier (also Ecoair) which keeps everything rust-free, plus I get more distilled water than I can use for radiators/ battery /steam iron etc. (Useful because in this area the tap water is very 'hard' indeed ). Before I bought the dehumidifier, surface rust on tools and such like was a problem over winter. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
McMuttley Posted November 13, 2015 Report Share Posted November 13, 2015 Agree with the dehumidifier approach, again a very tight single garage with limited through ventilation. I bought a ... http://www.dry-it-out.com/DD822-Graphite-dehumidifier It has both a internal water store and a thin clear plastic pipe. I have the pipe running under the garage door onto the drive. You can set it to 'high' if you being the car in from a wet drive (or wash it) - otherwise I have it on low speed and 50%. Unlike some - it works on a timer plug, i.e., it comes back on at the previous setting rather than re-stting itself or not coming on at all. It is light and easily moved around. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Denis Posted November 13, 2015 Report Share Posted November 13, 2015 Hi All Just about to get my repainted Tr6 back in the next week or two, if they finish on time!! Its a rolling chassis complete with suspension, engine gearbox etc, but a completly bare body, so still lots of work to do. The only place for it to go is my mom's 60's built garage. Its not really bad but it does get slightly damp as it has a slab floor (i assume on soil) not solid concrete. When i've left bare metal in the before it does eventually rust but things don't end up wet. So is a de-humidifier a good idea or am i wasting my time and money. Does anyone have any experience using on and what sort of capacity is needed. Cheers Keith In a word...YES! It is a a Good idea, and No, it's not a waste of time, or money! I have had a Dehumidifier in my brick built garage for several years, as I was fed up seeing beads of moisture on all metal items in my garage on winter days1 All that stopped when I got a 99 quid dehumidifier from Argos (other makes are available) mine didn't have a humidity switch, so I assumed on dry sunny, summer days it could/should be switched off!...but when I bought a Humidity switch I soon realised it's humid (above 40%) almost every sunny dry day, not just wet or cold days! So get one of those too, if it hasn't got a built in switch! Also don't depend upon emptying the internal trough...as you'll find you'll be doing that every few days! Get a dehumidifier that has an external tube that you can fit a hose onto and drill a hole through your garage wall like I did and it can water the garden for you...and your TR and all other metal items will stay nice and dry! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
barkerwilliams Posted November 13, 2015 Report Share Posted November 13, 2015 Keith, Is you garage fairly well sealed - not exactly airtight but reasonable? A dehumidifier would not work well if the garage was getting a large number of air changes per hour of fresh damp air. If garage is sound then dehumidifier would be good investment. Alan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Keith66 Posted November 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 13, 2015 Hi All Many thanks for all the advice, its always great to get user opinions. I think i will go the de-humidifer route as the garage (single small 60's) is a temp workshop so i will need to be there as much as possible working, even in the winter, so the Carcoon may not give me the space i need to wrok. The garage is in good condition, so if i improve the dor seals and look at lining the floor (some kind of workshop floor tiles maybe?) a de-humidifier sounds like it should be worthwhile idea. Cheers Keith Quote Link to post Share on other sites
McMuttley Posted November 14, 2015 Report Share Posted November 14, 2015 Hi keith, get the garage dry before laying any tiles - also seal the floor if possible. Before my car, the garage was a gym with no humidifier. I laid down those interlocking foam tiles, but when i lifted them, there was a pool of water below, it wasnt coming up as the floor had been sealed; but from condensation heading down and being trapped between the tiles and the cold floor, it never got chance to escape Quote Link to post Share on other sites
barkerwilliams Posted November 14, 2015 Report Share Posted November 14, 2015 Keith, Had some thoughts. Cheap solution. My car cover (£20) in the garage reaches the floor when fitted on the car. If the cover on the floor was weighted down to the floor on all sides with, for example, a length of wooden batten the dehumidifier could be placed inside the car cover with a frame to keep it's air intake free. You would then have effectively built a carcoon with dehumidifier and would not have to be concerned with excessive garage ventilation. Yes the floor seal would not be 100% but very little external air would penetrate. Easy to pick up the wood and remove the car cover and the expense of a few wooden battens are car cover would easily be offset by reduced running costs. Would be cheaper to run as it would only be servicing the 4 or 5 cu metres under the car cover. Alan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Motorsport Mickey Posted November 14, 2015 Report Share Posted November 14, 2015 Been there, tried it, built a overhanging frame with stretched poly sheeting stapled (with sealer over the staples) for the top with hanging curtains as you describe, better than nothing, bought a Carcoon. Mick Richards Quote Link to post Share on other sites
cotswold Posted November 14, 2015 Report Share Posted November 14, 2015 +1 with Keith, I used to have a wooden barn garage and all my tools stayed pretty much as I stored them then I moved to a new house with a 1970s concrete garage I saw all my tools go rusty in the first year (I also had a small water junction weep that didnt help that I had to cure). I bought a dehumidifier at £150 from a Sunday Mail advert and mounted it at about three feet high on a shelf on the far wall from the door. I set it at 40% humidity and I also put it on a digital timer with various 24 hour settings. It runs 3 times for 10 hours over a 24 hour period, I have two sensors that read between 42% at the non door end and circa 57%-60% humidity at the closed door end it also has the benefit of raising the overall temperature by 6 degrees so that avoids anything freezing. I could leave it on for more hours but the missus watches the leccy dial going around. Anyway, the car is dry and the tools have stayed as is 3 years later! I would throughly recommend this. Like Keith I also have a drain pipe mine is clipped to the wall and I also drilled a hole through the wall and buried the pipe below ground outside directly into a drain at 18" so the pipe doesn't freeze as it might above ground. For concrete garages it is in my opinion a better way to protect your investment (and these days it is an investment of both money and time). Charles Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Johncracknell Posted November 14, 2015 Report Share Posted November 14, 2015 I have a carcoon for my 6 that works great, but if I had a single garage I would line it with king span building insulation, including the doors, floor as well, over boarding the floor with 3/4 ply. Easy to heat for working on the car and with a small heater keeping the temperature above 0 all winter and dry. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kcsun Posted November 14, 2015 Report Share Posted November 14, 2015 Use the water from your dehumidifier to wash and rinse the car, No water marks and you barely have to use the chamois kc Quote Link to post Share on other sites
OAF939M Posted November 15, 2015 Report Share Posted November 15, 2015 (edited) I bought a dehumidifier to keep my two cars dry in the garage. I did not see any difference when it was on, and it was top of the range E bac built in the UK machine. Problem is I have air gaps along the walls where the rafters meet the bricks( sorry I am not a builder) One of my pals asked me if I was trying to dry out Norfolk.! As already mentioned,I think the building needs to be airproof and insulated as changes in air temperature cause the moisture to form Not sure what to do ,I have a breathable car cover on the TR6 and nothing on the other pre war car which has an alloy open body,and enough oil everywhere else to ensure it won't go rusty.! Edited November 15, 2015 by OAF939M Quote Link to post Share on other sites
john.r.davies Posted November 15, 2015 Report Share Posted November 15, 2015 (edited) You are quite correct OAF (Hugh?) you garage does need to be hermetically sealed and insulated like a Thermos flask for a dehumidifier to work. That's why Carcoons are effective, only temperature and humidity controlled air gets in. But as you point out, buildings 'breathe', they allow air in and out. And if you import warm air it is usually saturated with water vapour. Seal it, let it cool and all that water condenses and starts rust, Better let the building breathe - encourage it to do so ! Spaces under the eaves, ill fitting doors even roof vents. Last weekend the drain behind my garage became blocked as Storm Annabelle hit us. The water came in the back door like the tide was coming in. After unblocking the drain and soaked to the skin, I laid down some floor cloths to soak up the flood. Wrang them out and left them overnight. Next day, I took them up and all the water had been soaked up. So I hung them up to dry IN the garage. I can't think of a more stringent test. Yet the cloths were dry in 24 hours, and there is NO condensation on my cars. Ventilation is the key. John Edited November 15, 2015 by john.r.davies Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Andrew Smith Posted November 16, 2015 Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 Keith, You might find this link useful: http://www.dry-it-out.com/car-storage-faq I bought one of their garage dehumidifiers about 5 years ago and it does a great job - no more wet/rusty TuRK or tools, plus I use the distilled water for all sorts including the radiators and washer bottles! I sealed the bottom of my garge door, although still air gets in as it’s almost impossible to stop it, not that you should. I also bought an Air Chamber to keep Saffy in, which is excellent - http://www.morethanpolish.com/airchamber-protection.aspthe combination of this and the dehumidifier keeps both TRs bone dry. Cheers Andrew Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rhino_mac Posted November 16, 2015 Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 I've just bought this (arrives this week). http://www.appliancesdirect.co.uk/p/cdw12l/ecoair-cdw12l-dehumidifier?refsource=APadwords&crtag=AP&gclid=CjwKEAiAmqayBRDLgsfGiMmkxT0SJADHFUhPiuDIkErHnkAnCUkGxyqhW9gJj3K6LcbS7kAGDfBa6RoCx5_w_wcB Seems to have an outlet for a hose, plus it's slimline wall mountable (£20 extra for the bracket). I have a small 1kw oil filled radiator that will keep the chill off in the depths of winter so with the two I should be covered. It's quite expensive to run them, but on the basis of the money I've just spent out to restore JSK, it's small beans. Last year the restored bumper I bought from TR Trader started going rusty between November and February which was a bit of an eye opener. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Motorsport Mickey Posted November 16, 2015 Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 Careful, it's a compressor type rather than a desiccant, it's likely to turn off as the temperature comes down to 0 deg area. Mick Richards Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Don H. Posted November 16, 2015 Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 I have a fan blowing along the floor in my unheated, uninsulated brick detached garage. I do it for a couple of reasons: (1) to reduce, only slightly, the leaves and other **** that blow in when the doors are open, and (2) to keep the air moving to reduce condensation. It's a lot cheaper to run than a dehumidifier in this structure. It appears to help for condensation -- I seem to have less of the tiny amount of corrosion that builds up in the toolbox. Keeping the leaves out -- not so much, alas. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
cotswold Posted November 16, 2015 Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 This is my dehumidifier which works really well. The garage has some natural ventilation and in my experience and accoring to the two seperate sensors I have at the front and back of the garage it keeps it at 44/47% at the back where the machine is and the door isn't and 57% at the door end. I have no rust on my tools since I started using it for 10 hours in a 24 hour cycle, just saying Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mike3md Posted November 17, 2015 Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 (edited) Following on from Don's arrangement (a single fan on the floor), has anybody tried to convert their whole garage into a "carcoon" type set up? I wonder if fixing a fan* (in the wall??) so it blows air into the garage, and the exhaust is either via the various leaks or a flap valve would work? It should maintain a slight +ive pressure and presumably have the same effect as a bespoke air chamber. Mike * the fan would need to be sheltered from the weather in a small box Edited November 17, 2015 by mike3md Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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