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replacing hood with surrey top


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I bought a fibreglass backlight frame and backlight from Moss earlier in year to replace a lousy hood. The body goes for paint job soon so decided to check the fitting first. While the frame finish looks good and its dimensiions seem OK, its studs look like Dwayne Dibbley's teeth.Two main problems:

 

The two outside studs stick inward at such an angle that they sit inside the body lip; I suspect that to straighten them would need enough force to damage the frame nor do I fancy applying heat. As there aren't holes in the lip for those two i suppose I could just cut them off, araldite two new studs close by and drill appropriate holes in the lip. The other studs I think I can get in by slightly enlarging the corresponding holes.

 

Next problem is the the frame has no holes for the forward studs, supplied as P/N FHS2410 ( item 20 on p148) I assume they should go in the small holes on top of the B post to which access is awkward. I foresee strong language here.

 

Any advice would be really welcome. Don't be afraid of upsetting me if I've got it badly wrong.

 

ps: Any ideas on how to remove Nicola Sturgeon and Shrek from the surface of the planet would be very well received up here.

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Ray the two forward studs under the frame need removing for a 4a anyway as the deck extensions at that point are waisted for the hood frame. You will have to drill the two forward holes for the front studs at the top of the"B" posts and that takes a little bit of ingenuity to get them in the right place but the holes need to be fairly big anyway to give you a bit of wriggle room. I always fit studs to the nuts in the forward deck extensions as its easier to catch nuts on them in the corners rather than trying to fit bolts down through. The rest of the studs in the hard top (10mm nuts) are a bit weedy compared to the original (1/4" UNF) but by the time you have removed the captive nuts from the deck the holes there end up quite big anyway. Dont forget the rubber washers for the rear studs (Moss actually supply fibre washers but I cut rubber washers from some chassis mount kit rubber strip). For the front two studs I use rubber tap washers and you may need two or three to get the angle of the frame right to match the door windows. If you can borrow a hard roof section to drop on top it makes lining everything up easier.

Stuart.

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Hi Stuart,

silly question for those dying to be told - what are the rubber washers for?

 

Anti-vibration or leak stoppers.

 

Roger

Cushioning to stop transmission of vibration and to allow a bit of adjustment onto the deck rubber.

Stuart.

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Have followed Stuart's instructions and noe have the frame sitting neatly on the body, though a little bit of drilling to do yet. sadly more questions arise.

 

1. I ordered parts 750163, retainer seal and sealing rubber 650310 as per p148 of the Moss book but find the frame already has sealing rubber fitted .. Although a bit difficult to judge because of the unbuilt status, the windows when up appear to rest firmly against the fitted seal, just as they did (almost) against the softtop. Just to confuse me further the 650301 seals are 13 3/8 inches long while the 750163 retainer is 24 inches long.

 

2. Where the devil are the 8 x 552522 rivet, retainer meant to go?

 

3. Canopy bracket 612453 is not available whereas 611895 is. They look identical - can 611895 be used for both?

 

4. 611936/7 finishers for the sider of the frame are not available and nothing is mentioned for the remainder of the frame inside. i can't remember what was inside the frame of my last TR and anyway it was a factory fitted original so probably irrelevant. Should I just mess arounnd with leather covered hardboard or bits of carpet?

 

5. Should I just take to even stronger drink?

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The rail is that length as it doubles as the one for under the roof edges above the windows. You just cut it in half for the rear frame.The rubber is slightly longer so it goes down the "B" post a bit to provide more of a seal.

The rivets are to fix that rail to the frame.

The retainer bracket is near enough the same so yes you can use it for both.

The side finishers can be made up from either card or steel or ally. and they are then covered with headlining material, leaving a waste edge at the front that is wrapped round the front lip edge and retained by the furflex/draught excluder.

Stuart.

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Don't know why Moss et al cannot simply supply a ready made backlight that will just drop on, instead of our having to faff around with millions of bits as above.

If you bought a complete rear frame as per Honeybourne pattern then it is complete enough to just fit it as is. however all those extra bits are listed for those people restoring/fitting one from a bare frame only be that either a bare fibre frame or a bare ally original.

I made mine up from a bare fibre frame and with careful use of all the other bits that would go with an original frame it is indistinguishable from a genuine one at a fraction of the cost.

Stuart.

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Yes, that's probably the way to go, Stuart, and probably what I'll have to do, but still there must be many like myself that have to start from scratch. Even if you get the Honeybourne moulding, you presumably still have to fit the glass, rubbers, trim etc., don't you ?

 

I mean, if you added a Surrey setup as an option back in the day, you wouldn't have been given a kit of a million parts, you just fitted it and 'off to go' as they say in Wales.

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If you ordered to Surrey top back in the day then yes it would have been complete but that would have come as a "Unit" (Same as if you bought a replacement engine or any other unit that was made up of bits)

If you want to build a Surrey as I have done then you would need to buy a bare fibre frame from Moss, window seal and trim and the side channels and seals and clips and a headlining kit. I didnt opt for a glass screen as I dont think there is enough strength in the top section to prevent eventual cracking of the glass(Someone leaning on the top centre) instead I bough an untrimmed rear perspex window from Honeybourne and trimmed it to the same dimensions as an original glass.Trim the lip in the aperture of the frame down to 10mm(Its a lot bigger when you get it) and then just assemble as normal (paint/trim/fit window/fit to car.) With Roger H`s help I also fitted stainless protectors to the roof mounting holes and the trim cup inserts underneath for the rear mounting bolts. I also took the opportunity and fitted a high level LED brake light as well.I was lucky enough to buy an original steel roof that was in good condition too.

Stuart.

photo1748_zpsd8ev1uyt.jpg

Edited by stuart
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Thats very kind of you Roger. Can you make them 3mm less in depth Roger please as the countersinks on the fibre ones arent as deep as standard.

Stuart.

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Afraid i'm still a bit confused here. I should have mentioned before that I shall fit only the little soft-top so obviously I see now that trim panels all the way round the frame will have to be diy.

 

Where I still need advice is these wretched seals on the frame verticals. I'm attaching a photo of the frame in place with the window half up (but the door not accurately hung) Do I still fit the separate seal in the retainer between the window and the seal already on the frame or are they alternatives.?

 

ray

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Hi Ray,

the trim panels on my 4A that go up the sides and over the top were the usual plasticy/fabric type stuff and found that it got dirty very quickly.

So last march I remade them out of 0.020" stainless steel. Made in two halfs (left and right) with a joiner in the middle.

The actual shape is quite complex but if you used CAD technology (cardboard aided design) the it all works out.

0.020" is thing enough to get under the rubber seals to hold it in place.

 

Regarding your seal. Are you using the one piece rubber+furflex TR6 seal. If so then an additional short seal on the vertical would seal the window properly.

Try and find as big a seal as you can and preferably with a hard foot.

 

Roger

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Ray you do really need the extra seal in the rail on the side of the upright section. I use the Rimmers ones as they are a better fit in the rail though I have a different main seal for the doors, see pictures.

Stuart.

 

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The trim round the frame is just a headlining material (Longhorn type) stuck to the frame all the way round the rear to the base of the "B" post area and then another piece over the top centre. The small side panels are removable to access the front bolts only and are easily made from cardboard or 20SWG ally and covered with material.

Stuart.

Edited by stuart
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