Kevo_6 Posted May 15, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 15, 2015 Hi Kevo,I am not to sure whether copper grease is a good Idea as it is mainly an anti seize compound for threads,it will of course work but I wouldn't have thought for long in a bellhousing environment. I believe that there are correct greases available for this application but as to a specific "best" somebody here will know. Thanks Clive, I will do a search on grease. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
peejay4A Posted May 15, 2015 Report Share Posted May 15, 2015 A light smear of copper ease on the splines and gearbox nose will be fine. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tom Fremont Posted May 15, 2015 Report Share Posted May 15, 2015 Hi Kevo, I have steel carriers in mine and never had an issue since ensuring alignment. Bronze ones are out there but I suspect they are in answer to sticking issues which I believe are almost always alignment related ( "almost" being the operative term here ). I have doubts about their durability especially where the fork pins ride in the groove so will avoid them myself. If anyone has high mileage experience with these please comment. I have never greased the splines in mine, but do smear a light coating on the snout of the gearbox. Cheers, Tom Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Daz Posted May 15, 2015 Report Share Posted May 15, 2015 (edited) Hi I have decided to take out my gearbox again tomorrow to resolve my sticky clutch issue. What parts should I grease with a smidgeon of copper ease and is there any other procedure I should be doing ie. polishing up etc. Many Thanks. Chuck the B&B Transit clutch away and get a proper Leycock TR one Edited May 15, 2015 by Daz Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tom Fremont Posted May 15, 2015 Report Share Posted May 15, 2015 If the selection of clutch kit is in play I strongly recommend the SACHS PP, LUK driven plate and Koyo bearing. ( AKA Magic Clutch Kit from TRF ). The combination has been thoroughly vetted and has been popular for at least 15 years over here. TRF guarantee it too. Cheers, Tom Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Kevo_6 Posted May 15, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 15, 2015 Chuck the B&B Transit clutch away and get a proper Leycock TR one If the selection of clutch kit is in play I strongly recommend the SACHS PP, LUK driven plate and Koyo bearing. ( AKA Magic Clutch Kit from TRF ). The combination has been thoroughly vetted and has been popular for at least 15 years over here. TRF guarantee it too. Cheers, Tom Thanks Guys, not going to buy a whole new clutch. Just want to know the correct procedure for refitting the new one I already have. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Kevo_6 Posted May 15, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 15, 2015 A light smear of copper ease on the splines and gearbox nose will be fine. Thanks Pete. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Kevo_6 Posted May 15, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 15, 2015 Hi Kevo, I have steel carriers in mine and never had an issue since ensuring alignment. Bronze ones are out there but I suspect they are in answer to sticking issues which I believe are almost always alignment related ( "almost" being the operative term here ). I have doubts about their durability especially where the fork pins ride in the groove so will avoid them myself. If anyone has high mileage experience with these please comment. I have never greased the splines in mine, but do smear a light coating on the snout of the gearbox. Cheers, Tom Thanks Tom. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TR NIALL Posted May 15, 2015 Report Share Posted May 15, 2015 Kev this maybe to late but did you slacken off all Bolts slightly and see if that changes anything. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Kevo_6 Posted May 15, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 15, 2015 Kev this maybe to late but did you slacken off all Bolts slightly and see if that changes anything. No I didn't Niall, but as I used all new bolts including the dowl bolts. So I have assumed it must be because its all a bit dry. Do you think it's worth a try? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest ntc Posted May 15, 2015 Report Share Posted May 15, 2015 A light smear of copper ease on the splines and gearbox nose will be fine. +1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
John L Posted May 15, 2015 Report Share Posted May 15, 2015 From what I learned at the Gearbox seminar last week, its important that the sleeve that holds the release bearing slides well on the snout of the gearbox, making sure that the front of the snout does have a good rounded end to it. And maybe a good rub with emery to give a really smooth finish, as well as on the internal of the sleeve. It would appear that some of the tolerances have been tightened up a bit too much, and by pressing on the release bearing to the sleeve it does actually reduce the internal diameter of the sleeve, and that is what is binding on the snout when all the bits warm up a bit. As a matter of interest what fluid are you using, DOT 4 or 5? A good quality Lithium grease should be sufficient on the snout. John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest ntc Posted May 15, 2015 Report Share Posted May 15, 2015 From what I learned at the Gearbox seminar last week, its important that the sleeve that holds the release bearing slides well on the snout of the gearbox, making sure that the front of the snout does have a good rounded end to it. The snout should be rounded as std. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Kevo_6 Posted May 15, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 15, 2015 +1 From what I learned at the Gearbox seminar last week, its important that the sleeve that holds the release bearing slides well on the snout of the gearbox, making sure that the front of the snout does have a good rounded end to it. And maybe a good rub with emery to give a really smooth finish, as well as on the internal of the sleeve. It would appear that some of the tolerances have been tightened up a bit too much, and by pressing on the release bearing to the sleeve it does actually reduce the internal diameter of the sleeve, and that is what is binding on the snout when all the bits warm up a bit. As a matter of interest what fluid are you using, DOT 4 or 5? A good quality Lithium grease should be sufficient on the snout. John The snout should be rounded as std. Many Thanks Guys, good information. I'm using DOT4. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BlueTR3A-5EKT Posted May 15, 2015 Report Share Posted May 15, 2015 If it were me I would spend an hour slacking/removing and retightening all the bolts to see if there is any improvement. Fiddly I know but saves having to rip tunnel, stereo and yoke out. Fitting Process. Clean the mating surfaces of bell housing and backplate and deburr if needed. Any grot will kick the thing out of alignment. First bolts to fit are the dowel bolts, then all the others. - Do not be tempted to smash em in cause they are tight, they should be a nice push fit. Trial fit before fitting the bolts in their bellhousing/back plate positions before assy so you know they will fit and do not need hammering. The PO may have smashed em in and burred the holes, so check it. Snout and spline - light amount of graphite based dry film lubricant, is what I have used over the years. You have to burnish the surface it is applied to with the attaching parts to get rid of high spots or gobs of graphite. My preference for a dry film is because it will not attract the dust from the clutch as it contains nothing sticky (oil/grease) Motor bike chains are a classic item requiring dry film lubrication as they become covered in road dirt in operation. Beware if colloidal graphite like Graphogen as it is graphite in an oil suspension. Perhaps - http://cpc.farnell.com/1/1/92283-microfine-graphite-powder-dispensing-method-bottle-lubricant-type-dry-film-svhc-no-svhc-17-dec-2014-volume-weight-50g-lubricant-applications-automotive-industrial-mechanical-k30050-kasp-security.html OR http://www.maplin.co.uk/p/ambersil-graphite-lock-lubricant-n68jb My can is ancient and was made by Rocol. Cheers Peter W Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Kevo_6 Posted May 15, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 15, 2015 If it were me I would spend an hour slacking/removing and retightening all the bolts to see if there is any improvement. Fiddly I know but saves having to rip tunnel, stereo and yoke out. Fitting Process. Clean the mating surfaces of bell housing and backplate and deburr if needed. Any grot will kick the thing out of alignment. First bolts to fit are the dowel bolts, then all the others. - Do not be tempted to smash em in cause they are tight, they should be a nice push fit. Trial fit before fitting the bolts in their bellhousing/back plate positions before assy so you know they will fit and do not need hammering. The PO may have smashed em in and burred the holes, so check it. Snout and spline - light amount of graphite based dry film lubricant, is what I have used over the years. You have to burnish the surface it is applied to with the attaching parts to get rid of high spots or gobs of graphite. My preference for a dry film is because it will not attract the dust from the clutch as it contains nothing sticky (oil/grease) Motor bike chains are a classic item requiring dry film lubrication as they become covered in road dirt in operation. Beware if colloidal graphite like Graphogen as it is graphite in an oil suspension. Perhaps - http://cpc.farnell.com/1/1/92283-microfine-graphite-powder-dispensing-method-bottle-lubricant-type-dry-film-svhc-no-svhc-17-dec-2014-volume-weight-50g-lubricant-applications-automotive-industrial-mechanical-k30050-kasp-security.html OR http://www.maplin.co.uk/p/ambersil-graphite-lock-lubricant-n68jb My can is ancient and was made by Rocol. Cheers Peter W Cheers PeterI have plenty of graphite lubricants as I am a locksmith/safe engineer. Now I have more choices of lubricant, the question is which one to use. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TR NIALL Posted May 15, 2015 Report Share Posted May 15, 2015 No I didn't Niall, but as I used all new bolts including the dowl bolts. So I have assumed it must be because its all a bit dry. Do you think it's worth a try? I'd try it first and go for a Drive with the Tunnel loosely fitted and no H Frame if it still persists whip it out and Delve further. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tom Fremont Posted May 15, 2015 Report Share Posted May 15, 2015 (edited) It would appear that some of the tolerances have been tightened up a bit too much, and by pressing on the release bearing to the sleeve it does actually reduce the internal diameter of the sleeve, and that is what is binding on the snout when all the bits warm up a bit. Very interesting - news to me. The amount of diametrical reduction of the carrier sleeve due to the bearing races separating under a few hundred lbs of loading can't be much - I'd be surprised if it's even 0.001"; perhaps a tad more in bronze. Still it's at least plausible - stranger things have been found. I believe the original clearance was 0.015" diametral. Cheers, Tom Edited May 15, 2015 by Tom Fremont Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Kevo_6 Posted May 19, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 19, 2015 (edited) Hi I managed to get the gearbox out on my tod on Saturday; these are the things that I found which I am hoping are the contributing factors for my sticky clutch. Cross shaft a bit tight in the new bearings. Bearing sleeve a bit notchy on the nose. Fork pins not round and turning in the fork with some resistance in some areas. So next job was to take it all apart, so I had to drill out the extra roll pin that I put in last time and when I started to take out the cross shaft tapered bolt that sheared off, fortunately I had a new taper bolt and fork pins. Sunday morning I polished up the cross shaft, fitted the new fork pins and polished up the bearing sleeve and gearbox nose and made sure all was moving smoothly with a little clearance. I reassembled and lubricated with a small amount of cooper ease on the nose and splines. I refitted the gearbox on my tod (which I was quite chuffed about) all bolted up with the correct dowel bolts/bolts/nuts etc. I torqued everything up last night and I hope to start her up tomorrow night and hopefully nothing will change when it gets hot. At the moment the clutch pedal feels nice and as soon as I start to depress the clutch there is movement at the cross shaft. I obviously was not concentrating properly last August when I put the gearbox back in, as I could of sworn that the fork pins were new but looking at them they were the old ones, plus I never polished things up for a smooth operation. Anyway fingers crossed it all works fine when hot, then I can put my new Racetoration’s gearbox cover on as the old one took me a good 3 to 4 hour to get it to fit last time. Many thanks so far for all of your help . Edited May 19, 2015 by Kevo_6 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mike3739 Posted May 19, 2015 Report Share Posted May 19, 2015 Well done Kevo, fingers crossed you have cracked it! Cheers Mike Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TR NIALL Posted May 19, 2015 Report Share Posted May 19, 2015 (edited) Good Man Kev,Test Drive maybe without securing Gearbox Tunnel also don't forget Inspection Hole for Oil Filler Plug and Angle Drive saves a whole load of Hassle. I have Photos if you need them. Edited May 19, 2015 by TR NIALL Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Kevo_6 Posted May 19, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 19, 2015 Well done Kevo, fingers crossed you have cracked it! Cheers Mike Thanks Mike, enjoy your Spa trip. Good Man Kev,Test Drive maybe without securing Gearbox Tunnel also don't forget Inspection Hole for Oil Filler Plug and Angle Drive saves a whole load of Hassle. I have Photos if you need them. Thanks Niall, yes was going to test run with loose cover, just bought a Racetorations 2 piece cover but I will drill a hole for Oil plug and and top stater motor bolt as I did that on my old one. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TR NIALL Posted May 19, 2015 Report Share Posted May 19, 2015 Angle Drive and Speedo Cable. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Kevo_6 Posted May 19, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 19, 2015 (edited) Angle Drive and Speedo Cable. Racetoration's one have it already done http://www.racetorations.co.uk/triumphs-c56/tr4a-c8/tr4a-interior-and-trim-c42/split-gearbox-tunnel-p200 New web site started this afternoon too. Edited May 19, 2015 by Kevo_6 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Kevo_6 Posted May 21, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 (edited) Update- So far so good, engine nice & hot, clutch nice and smooth. I'll say no more . Edited May 22, 2015 by Kevo_6 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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