Grant Coulson Posted March 11, 2015 Report Share Posted March 11, 2015 Hello all 6ers, Although I have been a member for fourteen years, this is my first post on the forum. I have to admit that due to time restraints and a serve lack of knowledge I have always taken the easy option and sent my beloved 1975 TR6 down to my trust worthy mechanic for any repairs. Now that I have more time on my hands I have found new enthusiasm to do the work myself. This forum has been a great source. Apart from the standard service, oil,filters & anti freeze, so far I have fitted new front shocks (koni's), and applied waxoyled. What a messy job ! Next up the starter motor, what could be easier, two bolts and a couple of cables. Wrong. The starter has been playing up for the past year or so. Always starting but not always engaging first time. After reading a stream on this forum I opted for a high torque one from SC Parts. It turned up yesterday with no instructions and the pre cast bolt attached. I asked for one with out the bolt and requested instructions when I ordered. The bolt does not look like a problem as there is plenty of room, it may even help. My concern is the wiring. I rang SC parts, a very help chap talked me through the process. I should disconnect the short looping cable on the new starter and connect together the two thin wires on the loom to the small jack the side of the starter. The large cable bolts on the body, that one is obvious. Is the chap at Sc correct ?. I have read that the third cable can be left disconnected but he insists that to get the best out of the motor both cables should be connected. When I come to fit, am I correct in thinking the steering rack has to be disconnected to get the old starter out ?. Any advice would be of great assistance All the best Grant Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mike barrett Posted March 11, 2015 Report Share Posted March 11, 2015 Just fitted (last weekend) a modern high torque starter motor to my TR6. Same reason as you it had started to not engage properly. I had to disconnect the steering shaft to get the old one out. Easiest way was to undo the flexible joint near the steering wheel and this gave me enough space to remove the old starter motor. The new one is smaller so an easer fit. I took out the fixed top bolt from the motor and used the original bolt fitted from the gearbox side, need to cut it down in length to fit. Fiddly to get it in but ok. I put the front of the car on axis stands to get access to the bottom bolt. Wiring. on mine disconnected the connection between the power feed and the starter solenoid on the motor and then connected the main cable and the original small started cable. works very well and makes starting much quicker. cheers mike Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter Cobbold Posted March 11, 2015 Report Share Posted March 11, 2015 Hi Grant, Welcome to the forum. Dont let the starter dampen your new found enthusiasm! I think the starter can be fiddled out upwards without disturbing the steering, but I last did it 20 years ago.... Intermittent failure to engage - the starter just whirrrs - can be a sign of the ring gear on the flywheel being worn. The teeth wear more in some places than others - hence the intemittent fails. If you're lucky the new teeth on the starter Bendix will be a cure. Peter Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tim D. Posted March 12, 2015 Report Share Posted March 12, 2015 Hi Grant.. Welcome to the forum.. I changed to a hitorque last june before classic Le mans.. no need to remove the steering, with some wiggling you can get the starter past it.. Just check before you do this that your earth cable from engine to chassis is good as a deterioating earth can make the start doo odd things! Cheers tim Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted March 12, 2015 Report Share Posted March 12, 2015 Hi Grant, it can be handy to retain the use of the original solenoid if it has the rubber t*t on it to turn over manually. In which case the starter small wire connects direct to the power lead. So when you press GO the original solenoid pulls in supplying volts to the starter. Whereupon the starters own solenoid pulls in and spins the motor. If you haven't got the rubber t*t then do as you intended You mention bolting the large wire to the 'body' - I assume you are referring to the isolated 'post' on the body. As well as the earth straps going from battery to body and chassis to engine, consider fitting an extra earth from battery direct to engine. This overcomes the rather interesting connection between body and chassis. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Grant Coulson Posted March 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 13, 2015 Mike, Peter, Tim and Roger, thank you very much for all your advice. The starter is on but not without a few dramas along the way. The starter came off without too much of a fight, what a monster compared to the new high torque one, 19lbs compared to 8lbs and a lot smaller. It took a lot of twisting but came out under the steering rack. The fixed bolt is a pain, I cut off about 1 & 1/2 inches and managed to get the nut on. I found removing the nut & bolt on the gear housing just above the starter gave me that vital few inches to get a spanner on. Tested the motor, wow what power, but did not start her up as up on jacks. Wiring, I did as the guy at SC parts said and piggy backed the small wire onto the red & white wire and connected the big lead onto the isolated post. Put it all back together, all done. No The starter turned her over, she fired then immediately cut out, she just refused to start. After kicking both our cats around the garden for ten minutes I had a cuppa and remembered reading on this forum that the third smaller wire does not need to be connected. Disconnected it, Bang, it started first time. So what does that third wire do ?. General opinion was it is either feeds the coil or it is a simple balance resistor. I have taped it up and left it disconnected. Anyway, all's well that ends well, next project, the rear shock absorbers. Thanks again. Grant Quote Link to post Share on other sites
peejay4A Posted March 13, 2015 Report Share Posted March 13, 2015 (edited) I'm a bit confused about what wires you have connected and what you don't. Third wire, what colour? What year is your car, does it have a ballasted ignition coil? How many wires were there on the original starter? The high torque starters usually come pre-wired for use on cars which have a starter solenoid. This is the little strap which usually goes from the thick terminal post to a 1/4 inch lucar connector. The 6 has a pre-engaged starter motor so there's no solenoid involved, it's part of the motor. If you have an early car without ballasted ignition you just have a thick wire to the motor and a thin white/red wire from the ignition switch to operate the pre-engage mechanism. When you fit a high torque motor you disconnect the little strap that connects the big terminal to the 1/4 inch lucar one - that connection is used when you have a solenoid like on TR4/3 etc as described above. You connect the white/red to the small terminal that the strap was connected to and it should work fine from there. If you have a ballasted ignition then you should have a white/yellow wire going to the starter motor which supplies full 12v to the coil whilst cranking. This should be connected to the same small terminal on the new starter motor as the white/red wire from the ignition switch. Edited March 13, 2015 by peejay4A Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Grant Coulson Posted March 14, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 14, 2015 Hi Pete, Thanks for your post. My Tr6 is an original right hand drive 1975, 2.5pi. The original starter had three connections.I have connected the main large terminal and the red & white cable to the 1/4 inch spade. The troublesome third wire is brown. It was originally connected to the solennoid on a smaller spade next to were the red & white cable is connected. As far as I am aware I do not have a ballasted ignition coil. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
peejay4A Posted March 14, 2015 Report Share Posted March 14, 2015 (edited) Hi Grant. My natural curiosity is piqued. Your car should have a starter relay somewhere, I'm not familiar with the late cars. You should also have ballasted ignition and the full 12v for starting comes from the starter relay. All that is according to the online wiring diagrams. The mystery brown wire is puzzling. Brown usually means a permanent live supply from the battery. But that can't be right if it was connected to the White/red wire from the ignition switch. Did I understand correctly that it went to the starter motor and was connected to the White/red wire? I wonder where it goes and why it stopped the car from starting so to speak. I'd love to have a poke around it with my multimeter. The starter relay has a brown wire (actually 2 according to the wiring diagram). Could that be something to do with it? Has anything else stopped working since disconnecting the mystery wire? Edited March 14, 2015 by peejay4A Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Wilfried Posted March 15, 2015 Report Share Posted March 15, 2015 Just fitted (last weekend) a modern high torque starter motor to my TR6. Same reason as you it had started to not engage properly. I had to disconnect the steering shaft to get the old one out. Easiest way was to undo the flexible joint near the steering wheel and this gave me enough space to remove the old starter motor. The new one is smaller so an easer fit. I took out the fixed top bolt from the motor and used the original bolt fitted from the gearbox side, need to cut it down in length to fit. Fiddly to get it in but ok. I put the front of the car on axis stands to get access to the bottom bolt. Wiring. on mine disconnected the connection between the power feed and the starter solenoid on the motor and then connected the main cable and the original small started cable. works very well and makes starting much quicker. cheers mike I have also changed to a high torque model: starts very well. But the noise of the starter mechanism is very "cheap". Should I have greased something? Wilfried Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mike barrett Posted March 15, 2015 Report Share Posted March 15, 2015 I have also changed to a high torque model: starts very well. But the noise of the starter mechanism is very "cheap". Should I have greased something? Wilfried No grease. The high torque starter I think have a high speed motor that is geared down, so the sound is different a mix of high speed motor and gears, unfortunately its sounds a bit 'modern' but on mine it certainly works very well and engages everytime. mike Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Grant Coulson Posted March 19, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2015 Hi Pete, Sorry for the slow reply, been on a short trip away. Looking back, I did not explain were the brown wire was on the original starter. It is on a smaller half size spade attachment situated right next to were the red & white wire connects to a normal size spade. Both connections are on the solenoid. They are not joined together. As far as i can see, everything is still working. The car now starts first time, it use to take a few turn overs, does sound a bit modern but a small price to pay. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
peejay4A Posted March 19, 2015 Report Share Posted March 19, 2015 Thanks Grant. It'll have to remain a mystery :-) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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