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Anyone bought a 5 lately?


Guest Victor

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Guest Victor

Looking seiously at buying a 5, not in concours condition, but in excellent all round condition.

 

I know no two cars will be the same but I need to get a "ball park figure" of current values.

 

Where will I find these?

 

Many thanks

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Victor, Practical Classics have a fairly accurate guide (current listing for TR5s is £4500 in Cond. 3, to £13500 for Cond. 1) at the rear, and if you contact Country Mutual, their TR Register insurance scheme valuation form (Cond. A - E, £2000 - £16000+) has a price guide for different conditions and models.
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Guest Marvel901

Victor,

I would take those prices with a pinnch of salt. If anyone can show me a TR5 in any sort of running condition with a price of £4K, I will buy it instantly as for £2K forget it . A basket case is likely to cost you £5K. Anything priced between % and 10 K I would be VERy VERY wary of. As for a condition 1 car for £13K dream on ... you may be lucky but having seen dozens of 5s in the last couple of years ALL the cars Ive seen for less than 10K needed a full restoration even though 1 or 2 had MOTs.. Still other people are luckier than me you might find a cond 1 car for 13K but if I had one I would be asking £20K + which is about what I sold my last one for and that was not concours!!

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I would take those prices with a pinnch of salt.

Victor and Ian,

 

On a general basis, I think the Practical Classics is "fairly accurate" for a "ball-park figure" for most makes and models.

 

PC describe their price guide:-

 

Condition 1 "cars are in superb condition in all respects.  Not concours, but superbly maintained with no major faults."

 

Condition 2 "cars are capable of regular use.   They have a current MoT certificate but will need work and/or original parts to make them Condition 1."

 

Condition 3 "cars usually need a complete rebuild, but they might be driveable."

 

As with all these things it's the law of supply and demand, and what someone is prepared for something they perceive as rare or desirable (or possibly even as an investment - take some art!).   It also depends on how badly the seller needs the money!    As Tom says, what price the extras, with good complete Surreys reaching almost £2000!

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Guest harry dent

I concur completely with Marvel901 as we have been there done that, got the t-shirt etc.It is certainly much cheaper buying a fully restored TR5 with a full history, receipts of all bills and photo records.You cannot restore these TR5,s for under £20,000 and are more than likely upwards of £30,000.If you go to a pro it will be nearly double that.I am not talking of including labour if you do it yourself on the above figures.

Please do not kid yourself on these figures as this is a true

cost of restoring a TR5.TR6,s are a bit cheaper as you can still get factory panels.

Regards Harry TR5 nutter.

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It's all true I'm afraid - I've seen TR5s in TRBitz where customers are spending in excess of £40K to get a TR5 fully restored to a high standard. I was having a look at one being restored somewhere else yesterday and the level of work that has gone into it (e.g bonnet unpicked, fully cleaned, restored and then put back together again so you cannot distinguish it from a new part) you would be very unlikely to be able to buy it for under £30K.
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Guest Victor

Had what I thought was going to be my pride and joy inspected today.

 

All I can say is thank God I had it inspected by a well respected reputable engineer I'll not go into detail but the expression "All that glitters....."  comes to mind.

 

So, I'm back to square one,

 

Anyone know of a TR5, genuine UK right hand drive either in blue with biscuit interior or red with black interior....... you all know the rest !!!

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Guest Marvel901

Victor,

Where was this 5 you saw, which, as I imagaine you have guessed by now was not all you had hoped for, ie a wreck for a high price!! You may not want it but I might.. Email me off line if you 've a mind too I might like to investigate.

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Maybe we do a line in these T Shirts then .......

 

Seriously ........ I am totally unsurprised that this TR5 you looked at was a stinker ........ it is very hard to find a good one. I have a friend looking at the moment and the few cars I have viewed have just been dreadful for the money.

 

Alec's point is a fair one and is specifically the reason why I tell all the prospective TR5 owners that I come across to join the TR Register and get to know people who have these cars. You are twice as likely to come across the one for you quickly and those that you will see are unlikely to be dressed up old dogs sold by owners who havent a clue or who want the last penny out of the thing ............and you might also get it for a good price ......... keep looking like the rest of us !

 

Regards

 

Tony

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Ron

my prefered "T " Shirt seen at Le mans last year was

 

" Cover me in chocolate and throw me to the lesbians"

 

it conjures up a picture!!

Duncan

What gender was the wearer? that could make a big difference! ???

 

Ron

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Hi Duncan, no, I didn't mis read or mis understand the post.   I'll volunteer to be covered in chocolate and thrown to the lesbians!!!   Not many girls I know can resist chocolate.   Anyone else remember the newspaper reports in the 60s concerning Mick Jagger, Marianne Faithful and a Mars bar.................?
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  • 3 weeks later...

Hi Ian (Marvel901), Harry Paul, Duncan and Andy (GSKTR4), I feel as though I'm about to stick my neck out, and my head into the lions' den, as what I'm going to say is controversial and provocative (to the extent, that I hope to provoke a keen discussion) but please believe me when I say none of this lightly.   It is NOT intended to be confrontational or offensive, so please don't take umbrage or any offence at these observations, questions and comments.

 

Since posting the Practical Classics and Country Mutual price guides and getting some flak over them (I didn't prepare them, a Forum member just asked for some ball-park figures), I've been looking at ads. by various dealers etc. and yes TR Bitz are offering TR5s at £25,000 and £28,000.    These people are businesses and as such are run (or at least should be!)  as profit making commercial enterprises, they wouldn't be around for very long otherwise.    They will charge as much as they think someone can and will pay, and as long as people carry on paying premium prices, they will carry on pushing the prices up   It's all supply and demand alias capitalism or good business practice.  

 

Yes, you could spend £30,000 or £40,000 re-building a car, but why are you talking about such huge sums of money?   [in Cornwall, there's a heck of a lot of hard working people for whom, 30 or 40 thousand pounds is 2+ years' wages or salary.   There's lots down here only being paid minimum wage, and can't even afford to get on the housing ladder due to very high prices paid by 'up-country' people buying the smaller houses/bungalows/cottages up at inflated prices (but, I'll get off that particular subject and soap box, before you any of you who've read so far, go to sleep or into a trance!).]  

 

This is what seems to be happening in the TR5 world, with over-inflated and astronomical prices, which are going to put off or exclude a lot of potential TR buyers and possibly potential TR Register members (I'd certainly be a bit scared off and thinking I'll never be able to afford a TR on seeing the numbers quoted in this posting above).

 

Now, can anyone explain why the prices for TR5 parts are so high, are they so unique.   If we're totally honest about the model, what is a TR5?  It is a TR4A with a TR6 engine, or a TR6 with the outer wings, end panels, boot and bonnet lids of a TR4A and a very few other particular features.   Are you saying that re-building a TR4A or TR6 is going to cost these same sums of money.   If that is the case, then TR ownership is going to become more and more exclusive, elitist and worst of all, which will be to the ultimate detriment of our own interest.    This I find very disturbing and sad, as the sight and sound of TRs on the road, being used as they were designed, built and intended to be used, will become rarer and rarer sights.   The TRs were always intended to be affordable and cheaply competitive.  

 

In Cornwall (and when out and about on Devon and Somerset roads), they are already a rare and seldom seen sight.   Are our favourite cars to become more akin to investors' and speculators' works of art (so-called! - Tracy Emmins' bed comes to mind, or a pile of bricks 'King's or Emperor's New Clothes), the most valuable of which, which are locked away  in bank vaults and never see the light of day, let alone public roads and tarmac.   How many of these concours vehicles are going to be only trailered to shows, if they venture out at all, they're not supposed to be Museum exhibits.  

 

Are these cars really restored to factory condition?   The care and meticulous attention to every little detail that these very expensive restorations involve, if done by Triumph would have priced these cars out of the market.    With a bog standard TR5, once re-built to a reasonably high standard, surely wouldn't cost the sums that are being quoted or if they do what hope is there for us mere mortals, when you start looking at a 5 costing as much or more than a half decent Ferrari (unlike Malcolm, I'm not an especial fan of the prancing horse!).  

 

Are we to expect all TRs to start being given this sort of price?    I love the TR5; in that poll a while back, I voted for the TR5 as my most favourite TR, to my mind the ultimate TR, but I do like the German styling of the 6, and I could afford a half decent one of them (£7,500 for mine in 2002 - 'good' 5s were then around the £12-12,500 mark, how good who knows?), well we're happy with what we got for our money.   Anyway, I've deviated again on this crusade, so back to the point, if there really is one, if the TR5 or any car is a prototype or otherwise very important individual car, such as Alan Graham's X755 or Mike's (sirmatt) X753, then yes, using the factory produced parts may be justified for originality purposes, but really, once they;re painted well, who can really tell the difference?   As much as I love the TR5, I would never (even if I had unlimited amount at my disposal - I wish!) pay over £25,000 for one. I'd be afraid to use it.   Another question, how do you get on with agreed insurance values?    Do Country Mutual accept these very high values, if they do they need to update their forms.   How much does it cost to insure for these values?   How much is the excess?

 

As I said at the start of this saga, please, don't take any offence at this posting.   I feel there are some valid points to kick around......................................

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Hi Jon

 

They do - my rallyTR4 is insured for £25k and its going up to £30k shortly by virtue of the steel engine. Ive already turned down £25k for it - basically cos BST is not for sale, but for example a prof built car like mine, done by one of the specialists would be near £50k. So the agreed value is 50% of the prof rebuild cost.

 

My TR4a is agreed valued at £20k - nice car, last of 50 made and the last sold by Newsomes (the 'factory' dealer in Coventry).

 

Cheffyns valued my TR3a 2SMC (in bits) at £10k to £14k last June .......

 

So what im saying is that restored TR's are expensive, both to build and buy.

 

Original TR's are much rarer so your contention that its all going up in price is true ........ but have you also looked at the cost of good quality spare parts recently ? this is the scary bit for those of us lucky enough to have these cars!

 

Regards

 

Tony

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Hi Jonlar,

 

No offence taken, and I don’t think your views are at all confrontational or offensive but well put. We are all reasonable people here on the forum and a lot is said “tongue in cheek” and should not be taken too seriously.

 

You raise some important issues. Just where are our cars going market wise, and who will become the typical owner of a TR.? It would seem, especially to those who do not have deep pockets, that our favourite cars will soon be out of our reach and become “trophies” for “Flash Harry’s “((unsure about correct use of  ‘  in that instance?) No offence to Harry Dent)). Sadly there is already evidence of this, and I do not know how it is prevented.

 

Prices and availability of TRs in general are rising. I heard only this weekend that TRBitz had sold a nice but not concours TR5 for £30k, and I know of another Midlands garage that has a POA tag on a TR5 with an implied price tag of £50K. All good for those of us who have had there cars for some years, but out of reach for most mortals. As you correctly surmise it is all supply and demand of an ever decreasing market in which fewer companies are trying to survive, and as long as there are people daft enough to pay these prices then it will always be so. I have also seen good solid TR5s recently purchased for circa £15K which in my book is more sensible for a well sorted but not concours car. So they do exist.

 

I am reliably told that to rebuild a TR of any description takes at least 600 man hours. At rates of £30- £40 per hour without parts and paint it is easy to see how prices at dealers are arrived at. The alternative of course is to do the work yourself if you have the skills and time. Those who don’t have no alternative. I doubt that even in Cornwall you will find anyone with the skill necessary to rebuild you a TR at under £20 per hour.  I don’t think any of us have much time for the trophy TR owner, TRs are for driving. The dilemma for anyone contemplating buying one is what will I get for my money? If I am lucky (and possibly daft enough) I might pay £30k for a very nice looking rebuild and hopefully drive it not prize it. However there is no guarantee that it is right,  or even a genuine TR5 and will not need some further work in a year or twos time. Or you can buy a good apparently sound car for say £12K +. You may be very lucky but more likely than not there will be many hidden horrors to find which will necessitate a full body of rebuild in a year or two. Unless you have the skills then you are back to the top of this paragraph and ultimately paying even more for the car of your dreams.

 

Despite what most people believe there are many, many differences between a TR5 and a TR4 or TR6. Roger Ferris will tell you that hardly a panel under the bonnet of a TR5 is common to the TR4 or TR6. Many detail parts changed even during the production of the TR5 and CKD cars could vary further. So yes parts are unique to a TR5. Repro parts are very, very poor both in fit and quality. I will not use them unless I have absolutely no choice. But finding good repairable original parts is getting harder and harder. As such once more market forces come in to play.

 

I can’t see where it will stop. There do appear to be many TR5s re surfacing at the moment. We have 21 in the Camb Followers area! As market forces apply prices will at some point come down again,(as the Trophy owners get bored and sell on to purchase the next trophy) but not by much as labour costs and part supply will remain at a premium. I know of one TR owner who has found a restorer in Eastern Europe at a fraction of the UK cost. This may be one answer, otherwise I am afraid it is save up or obtain the skills and do as much as possible yourself.

 

I guess I am fortunate in that I bought my TR5 30+ years ago and a redundancy package is paying for the rebuild (body done professionally, rest being muddled through by me) However my TR3a was very cheap, is very rough and dog eared I drive her regularly in all weather and have great fun, which if I recall is what TR driving is all about.

 

all the best

Duncan

ps no offence was taken, or given I trust, about the "T" shirt just fooling around!

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No offence taken here Jonlar, I was just pointing out what I know to be the case re. cost of restoration, rarity of parts/cars and current market prices.

 

There's no escaping the market I'm afraid and I don't think if you turned up at a Ferrari garage and said you were from Cornwall that you'd get a 360 for the price of a 306 :D .... we all have to cut our coats according to our cloth .... prices of TR6s seem to be softening, probably because there are lots of well restored ones around, so they are much more affordable now than they were say 10 years ago ... it has probably become uneconomic to restore a TR6 now, so they will eventually get rarer and prices will inevitably rise again, meaning someone will then find it attractive to restore one again and around and around we go ad nauseam.

 

Plain fact is .... there's plenty of people around who are willing to pay top dollar for a really good TR5, so don't expect prices to fall any day soon.

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