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Halfords Classic 20/50

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Slight cock-up on the lubrication front today.

Thought I had a can of Millers Classic 20/50 in the garage, only to find it was empty (why do we keep empty cans?) so rushed down to Halfords, looks reminiscent of the old Duckhams Q........green!

Has anyone any views or thoughts on this oil?

No idea who actually manufacturers Halfords oil, do you?

 

Thanks

 

Nick.

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I use it and so do others on the forum. No complaints here.

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Our engines need around 1200ppm ( 0.12%) ZDDP. If the supplier will not divulge how much their oil contains I avoid it. ZDDP continually deposits and erodes as a thick film on flat tappets and protects them from wear.

 

So how much does Halfords Classis 20/50 contain?

Halfords are not saying:

http://www.halfords.com/motoring/engine-oils-fluids/engine-oil/halfords-classic-oil-20w50-5l#tab1

 

I shall stick with Millers.

Peter

Edited by Peter Cobbold

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Guest ntc

Halfords Classic was for some years brewed by Comma, although I don't know if it still is.

 

Decent enough jollop by all accounts . . . . .

 

Cheers

 

Alec

It is and still is.

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+1 for Valveoline recomended to me by a guy that races and builds quick cars, no problems.

Mark

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Try this from Joe Gibbs Racing. I've been using this since my engine rebuild.

 

http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/motorsport/engine-oil/joe-gibbs-driven-hr-1-15w50-engine-oil-2

 

Steve

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I take that's about right then Peter.

Mark.

Mark, Yes, in the goldilocks zone not too much nor too little.

Peter

 

http://lnengineering.com/resources/2014/02/28/frequently-asked-questions-about-motor-oils/#Z10

Edited by Peter Cobbold

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Hello all,

 

I have around 40lt of Castrol, Classic 20w50 to get through. It contains around 0.08% Zinc, and according to previous posts. this is quite a bit short of the desired amount. I also have some bottles of additive but clueless as to how much to add, this is a cautionary area as I believe we can have too much Zinc also.

 

Can anyone offer any guidance as to how much ZDDP additive is safe to add to an oil already containing 0.08% Zinc?

 

Regards,

Richard.

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Hello all,

 

I have around 40lt of Castrol, Classic 20w50 to get through. It contains around 0.08% Zinc, and according to previous posts. this is quite a bit short of the desired amount. I also have some bottles of additive but clueless as to how much to add, this is a cautionary area as I believe we can have too much Zinc also.

 

Can anyone offer any guidance as to how much ZDDP additive is safe to add to an oil already containing 0.08% Zinc?

 

Regards,

Richard.

Richard, Does the bottle of additive state its zinc or phosphate concentration? Peter

 

But beware, the additive may contain loads of detergent and that may not be good:

Quote from the link in #13:

""Beware of ZDDP boosters and concentrates being sold under various names. These products should truly only be used at time of break-in or not at all if a fully-formulated break-in oil is used. I haven't tested every one of these products, but one thing is very obvious to me. Products previously sold to boost ZDDP, like STP or GM EOS, always had roughly an equal amount of detergents to offset the affect of ZDDP in reducing the TBN of motor oil. Most of these ZDDP concentrates omit detergents altogether or use over-based Ca detergents known to reduce the efficiency of the anti-wear properties of the oil! Just like you need more Zn and P in an oil that has more detergents, you also have to have additional detergency because of the breakdown of ZDDP in peroxides and its interaction with combustion byproducts to form sulfuric acid. Knowing the right balance is something best left to the oil manufacturers and their chemical engineers......""

.....

"Worth noting, CI-4 diesel motor oils tend to have more detergents, and it has been determined in the SAE paper "Oil Development for Nascar" that overly detergent motor oils can block or "clean" the anti-wear films off of engine parts, that is one reason that these oils usually have high levels of anti-wear additives. SAE Technical Paper Series 2007-01-3999, Modern Heavy Duty Engine Oils with Lower TBN Showing Excellent Performance, also show that low detergent packages increase the effectiveness of film formation, just as in racing oils tend to have less aggressive detergent packages, which is another reason many be to consider a racing oil versus a diesel oil for your engine."

.......

""The best preventative measure that can be taken with any engine is to change the oil often and use the best oil available, best meaning not expensive or full-synthetic, but rather an oil that is designed with high levels of anti-wear additives and the right balance of detergents.""

 

Its a minefield. What else is in the additive?

Edited by Peter Cobbold

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Thanks for that Peter,

 

The additive I have is ZDDPlus (sorry, having difficulty pasting a link) it contains Zinc & Phosphorous. I've just had a look on their website and they provide a chart detailing how much of their product to add to 5qts (4.7lt) to raise the concentration the required levels.

 

Thanks again,

Richard.

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Thanks for that Peter,

 

The additive I have is ZDDPlus (sorry, having difficulty pasting a link) it contains Zinc & Phosphorous. I've just had a look on their website and they provide a chart detailing how much of their product to add to 5qts (4.7lt) to raise the concentration the required levels.

 

Thanks again,

Richard.

Looks good stuff - high concentration.

If you already have 0.07% in the GTX then you need to add " 2.2oz to 5 quarts" to get to 0.17%, or half that to get to 0.12% Zn.

Love those quaint units !! A USA quart is 0.95 litres. So 5 USA quarts is 4.75 litres, a smidgeon over one Imperial gallon.

If your engine has a trick cam or is driven at high rpm then I'd go for 0.17% Zn.

Peter

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Yes Peter, they give extensive detail on their website, I really should have looked it up before. I will be running a cam with a fairly high lift with double valve springs. So, I think 2oz per 5lt Castrol Classic 20w50 would provide suitable protection.

 

Incidentally, the ZDDPlus I have I purchased from Goodparts in U.S.

 

Richard.

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Hi Folks

Sounds far too technical for me; but what about our Penrite Classic for Triumphs, sold in our own Shop and delivered to your door by Penrite.

I have just put it in my E Type XK engine and it is excellent at start up, no tappet rattle, with good hot pressure. Used to use the Halfords Classic until this became available.

For my 6 I use Millers Motorsport CSS 20-60 and get very good pressure. The engine was rebuilt in 2001 has done about 60,000 miles and competes regularly.

Roger

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Hi Folks

Sounds far too technical for me; but what about our Penrite Classic for Triumphs, sold in our own Shop and delivered to your door by Penrite.

I have just put it in my E Type XK engine and it is excellent at start up, no tappet rattle, with good hot pressure. Used to use the Halfords Classic until this became available.

For my 6 I use Millers Motorsport CSS 20-60 and get very good pressure. The engine was rebuilt in 2001 has done about 60,000 miles and competes regularly.

Roger

Hi

I usually use Penrite Classic Light 20-60 and I ordered last Wednesday night some Classic for Triumphs, sold in our own Shop and received it Friday morning. All this for £27, this is a great deal and a very quick free delivery.

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Hi

I usually use Penrite Classic Light 20-60 and I ordered last Wednesday night some Classic for Triumphs, sold in our own Shop and received it Friday morning. All this for £27, this is a great deal and a very quick free delivery.

But Penrite are coy on the ZDDPs contents. What does 'full zinc' mean in their sales blurb? And why not tell us what the zinc % age is??

Has anyone found a number?

Mind you I can't find a figure in the past year for Millers Classic 20/50 either. Anyone got one?

 

An insufficiency of ZDDP will take many miles - years - of road riving to show up. Oil pressure wont change and the existing layer of Phopshate/ZDDP on the surfaces will take time to wear off. Then the tappets start to wear. There will be no indication until the cam lobes or tappets have worn to the point where performance is detectably impaired. ZDDP is depleted from the oil during running.The ZDDP content of these oils might be adequate if the oil is changed at say 3000miles religiously, by which time it may have been exhausted.

 

Perhaps adding ZDDPPlus to a 20/50 with stated [Zn] or [P] is the route to being fully confident.

 

Peter

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But Penrite are coy on the ZDDPs contents. What does 'full zinc' mean in their sales blurb? And why not tell us what the zinc % age is??

Has anyone found a number?

Mind you I can't find a figure in the past year for Millers Classic 20/50 either. Anyone got one?

 

An insufficiency of ZDDP will take many miles - years - of road riving to show up. Oil pressure wont change and the existing layer of Phopshate/ZDDP on the surfaces will take time to wear off. Then the tappets start to wear. There will be no indication until the cam lobes or tappets have worn to the point where performance is detectably impaired. ZDDP is depleted from the oil during running.The ZDDP content of these oils might be adequate if the oil is changed at say 3000miles religiously, by which time it may have been exhausted.

 

Perhaps adding ZDDPPlus to a 20/50 with stated [Zn] or [P] is the route to being fully confident.

 

Peter

Hi Peter

 

This is all too scientific for me but I did find this; http://www.penriteoil.com.au/tech_pdfs/149%20LATEST%20ZINC%20LEVELS.pdf you may well of seen this before but if you haven’t you may find it of some use.

Edited by Kevo_6

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Peter,

 

From Penrite's US web site for 20-50 everyday oil

 

 

Typical Data

Density at 15oC, kg/L 0.874

Viscosity, Kinematic, cSt

at 40oC 180

at 100oC 20.1

Viscosity Index 130

Viscosity, Cold Cranking @ -15 oC 7,491

Zinc, mass % 0.110

Sulphated Ash, mass % 1.08

Base Number 8.20

 

 

http://www.penriteoil.com.au/pis_pdfs/0EVERYDAY%2020W-50%20FEBRUARY%202015.pdf

 

 

Not sure how the 0.11% mass matches the 1200.PPM (0.12%) you quoted earlier.

 

Regards

 

Simon

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Thanks Kevo, Simon.

And this from Penrite, Australia states around 1000ppm ( dated Oct 2013)

http://www.penriteoil.com.au/pis_pdfs/CLASSIC%2020W-50%20OCTOBER%202013.pdf

 

So its OK-ish in Oz and USA at least.

I think I'd add ZDDPPlus to bring it up to 1700ppm if I had more severe profiles on the camshaft. And to break in a new camshaft/tappets.Or if driving the revs off the motor.

Makes me wonder if the TR teams at ClassicLM doped their sponsor's oils with more ZDDP ?

 

 

Peter

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Hi Peter Standard Penrite oil used at Classic LM with no more additions. Penrite oil sold by register has aprrox 1600 ZDDP ppm in it.Hope this helps Terry

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