stuart Posted February 25, 2015 Report Share Posted February 25, 2015 Interesting spec on it, quite like the Borranis suits the car, Shame about the seats though. Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
McMuttley Posted February 25, 2015 Report Share Posted February 25, 2015 At the risk of further abuse from the jealous sidescreen types I present for your delectation another Italia for sale in Paris: We are not jealous - just sane - more sense than money and all that ! Obviously, loverly as an Italia is, if one had that sort of cash lying around, surely one would buy a real Maserati, rather than sort of triumph pretending to be one !!! (see ya, off back to the cheapoTR3 forum) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Don H. Posted February 25, 2015 Report Share Posted February 25, 2015 Viv, It is, indeed on a TSF = TR3B chassis which makes it technically 'rarer' than other Italias. However, this last batch of Italia rolling chassis did not not get TR3B upgrades (neither the larger engine nor the 4-synchromesh gearbox) so are actually identical to earlier Italia chassis... Paul, you're sure these chassis didn't get 4-synchro 'boxes? My TSF sidescreen, built 12 April 1962 has one, noted on the BMIHT build certificate as a "rationalized gearbox". Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Paul Harvey Posted February 25, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2015 (edited) The TSF Italia rolling chassis were identical to previous Italia chassis, even though they were produced during the TR3B phase, and simultaneously with TCF chassis for TR3B's. This included engines at 1991cc, which may have been because Italian taxes were much lower for cars under 2 litres. Likewise, the gearboxes did not get 4 synchro, but this may have been a useful way for Standard Triumph to use up existing supplies for a car they saw no future for. According to Bill Piggott - 'Original Triumph TR' - none of the TSF chassis got the 4 synchro which was only fitted to the TCF chassis. Don's example proves the exception, and maybe this was an optional upgrade, duly noted on the Heritage Certificate. Borrani wire wheels were always listed as an option for Italias, but we know of no recorded example fitted by the factory to a production car. I checked with the UK Borrani dealers, and they have no codes for Italias although they are again the same as TR3. As Stuart says, they are an eminently suitable upgrade. As to Maseratis - sadly they are no longer 'hundred grand cars.' I very much like the Sebring, which is like a grown up Italia. Early last year I might have found one for this sort for money, but they are now £200k + and flying. Possibly even sexier is the 3500GT, produced by Vignale alongside our Italias. Again, think quarter of a million and look at an Italia again. The President of the Ferrari club of Austria has a fabulous collection of £ million cars. When he wants to go on a rally, or thrash one for fun, he takes his Triumph Italia. As he explained, he gets the same handmade, coachbuilt quality, with much less risk! Edited February 25, 2015 by Paul Harvey Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Pridewood Posted February 25, 2015 Report Share Posted February 25, 2015 Hell Paul, The Maserati 3500 GT Coupe was produced by the famous Carrozzeria Touring. The 3500 Spider by Vignale. Both are beautifull cars, like the small Italia. Best regards John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Malocomotion Posted February 25, 2015 Report Share Posted February 25, 2015 Hello ! +1 with Paul about the choice of the Italia... regards Patrick Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Don H. Posted February 25, 2015 Report Share Posted February 25, 2015 ...According to Bill Piggott - 'Original Triumph TR' - none of the TSF chassis got the 4 synchro which was only fitted to the TCF chassis. Don's example proves the exception, and maybe this was an optional upgrade, duly noted on the Heritage Certificate. ... TR3Bs were always a bit of a parts-bin-special, more so than the normal S-T product of the era. There may have been a few official "options", but it's not clear thst these were optional in practice. For example, every TR3B I've seen, TSF or TCF, had adjustable steering and leather upholstery. The idea that full synchro was an option makes little sense to me. Much more likely all they had that day were TR4 gearboxes, and that's where my rationalized 'box came in. Note that the gearbox is stamped "TSF" with the correct number from the build record, so it's been there from the start. No idea how rare or common that is -- they're TR3Bs, after all, so there are no rules. I wouldn't be surprised to find an original 4-snchro Italia somewhere in the mix. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dave Ashworth Posted March 19, 2015 Report Share Posted March 19, 2015 TSF... TCF... Please enlighten me somebody. I'm assuming they weren't built from the Triumph Spares Fund! Dave. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Don H. Posted March 19, 2015 Report Share Posted March 19, 2015 TSF... TCF... Please enlighten me somebody. I'm assuming they weren't built from the Triumph Spares Fund! Dave. TSF and TCF refer to the commission numbers of the two series of TR3Bs. When the TR4 started production in late 1961, American dealers were concerned about cost and availability, and felt that there was still a market for the traditional sidescreen TR. Production was restarted for part of 1962, with cars built at the Forward Radiator Company (a S-T subsidiary). The first series to start had commission numbers TSF1L to TSF530L. The prefix "TS" is consistent with the Triumph Sports commission number series started with the TR2, with the addition of "F", presumably for Forward Radiator. A couple of months later the TCF series began production and continued from TCF1L to TCF2804L. The TCF series was also built at Forward Radiator, hence the "F", but contained a lot more TR4 bits in assembly as the older stocks were consumed. Engines, brakes, and gearboxes on TCF cars are the same as TR4. The TR4 had a commission series with CT as the first two letters, and it's at least a useful mnemonic device, if not the original underlying logic, that the "C" is common to the TR4 and the later TR3B series. The two TR3B types were made at the same time for a number of months. The last of the TSF commission numbers weren't complete cars -- they were the chassis supplied to Italia production. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vivdownunder Posted March 19, 2015 Report Share Posted March 19, 2015 Don, most likely prudent for Italia to insist that TSF502-530 chassis be fitted with 3 synchro gearboxes, in keeping with ongoing owner's manuals and dealer service advisories. Saves supplementary drawings and printing for such a small run of cars. Also no mix of short stubby 3 synchro gear levers and the longer cranked gear levers of all synchro boxes. Can't be sure though until all Italias with a TSF chassis/drive train are accounted for. Viv Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Don H. Posted March 19, 2015 Report Share Posted March 19, 2015 True enough, Viv, but one could say the same thing about TR3 manuals and advisories, yet my car came with full synchro...and a perfectly normal TR3A gear lever. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Paul Harvey Posted March 19, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2015 The only known differences to the rolling chassis of TSF Italias compared to earlier chassis is the front disc calipers, which were of the TR4 Girling type. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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