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SAH Inlet Manifold and Head


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I have recently purchased a tr3a, that has been off the road since 1975. The Build records state that the car was supplied with competition springs and dampers when it left the factory. It also has a number of other sporting goodies including an inlet manifold that looks identical to the one shown in the old SAH adverts. The head also has been ported and is a different colour to the block. Did SAH put any identifying marks on their heads?

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The SAH cylinder head that I have has an aluminium plate (with SAH printed on it) riveted to the middle of one side at the bottom edge from what I can remember. The head is stashed away in a lock up and needs a complete rebuild!

 

 

Cheers John

Edited by John390
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SAH heads often enough had a small plate riveted on, at least originally, but not very securely . . . . .

 

Back in the day colours seemed to vary somewhat, I've seen Triumph heads and engines in blue, Morgan counterparts in green, both in a kind of duck egg shade and eggshell finish. I've also seen heads and blocks in a pale silver blue metallic, rather like Holbay's old silver green.

 

I assume there would have been an identifying stamp somewhere, but what and where I know not.

 

Cheers

 

Alec

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I suspect that, these days, any number of specialists

would do just as good a job modifying a cylinder head

as SAH did in the day. Probably better with the options

now available.

 

So, the only item that would be special would be the

SAH plate itself?

 

AlanR

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Hi All

 

The interest is that they are period upgrades, rather than the performance gain - I have a TR5 for when I want to be a hooligan!

 

Thanks for the info. I have had a look at the head and I can see two snapped of rivets. I have taken a photo and circled them in red. However, they are on the top edge of the head, not the bottom - is this significant?

 

I have also attached some pictures of the manifold and the old SAH advert.

 

post-13231-0-43386900-1421053445_thumb.jpgpost-13231-0-47626300-1421053585_thumb.jpgpost-13231-0-97209900-1421053602_thumb.jpgpost-13231-0-76744200-1421053683_thumb.jpg

 

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I notice that your engine block has a plate attached to where the engine No. would normaly be stamped.

It looks the same as the plate on my '3 which is a factory reconditioned engine No. plate.

in my case TSA709FRE.

 

Bob.

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Hi, marting I might be wrong about where the plate was rivited as I have not seen it for some time, but it was definitely at one edge (top or bottom). It is in the middle as your picture shows and I think it is about 2 inches long.

It seems I will have to dig it out and take a picture. I am not sure when that will be!

 

 

 

Cheers John

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In 1962, SAH supplied first the 4-branch exhaust manifold for the Works' TR4 Rally cars, then the inlet manifolds, heads and camshafts. This combination yielded around 135 BHP.

Ian Cornish

Hi Ian

 

My exhaust manifold is standard. Are there any identifying marks on the SAH camshafts?

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Minor correction. Unless my memory is letting me down, I don't think the 'works' cars ever used the SAH inlet manifolds for twin SUs, for these would have required homologation.

 

SAH modified heads and camshafts worked well 'back in the day'. However, please TRTony, don't rubbish me by pointing out what has been achieved in more recent days ....

 

Hon. Pres.

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Hi Graham

 

I am only really interested in what was available back in the day. Surely that is the point of owning old cars. If you want what has been achieved 'in more recent days' buy a more recent days car!

 

Martin

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Hi

 

As far as I'm aware all the SAH prepared heads had that tags as shown in the post above ... Attached by a copper rivet at either end. Others had similar (presumably because they were made by the same printers ?) so the presence of holes in the right place doesn't necessarily demonstrate that it's an SAH prepared head. I have a Derrington head that's similarly adorned which I'd say would be even rarer but in my case a bit of a doorstop but it demonstrates the point. A number of the 4 works TR4 rally cars had SAH prepared heads but I'm sure that HP can add the background to that rather than me.

 

Hon Pres is right (of course) and is Ian C on what went on the Works TR4's and the only Photos that I've seen show what looks to be the standard production SU H6 carb manifold in use until the twin weber DCOE 45's, inlet and exhaust manifolds appeared from SAH and were homologated for 1963. That weber set up did indeed give 135bhp in the day, improved today on 3VC for example to around 155 bhp, which gives you an idea on how exhaust, camshaft and fuel technology in particular has helped the quest for power and torque.

 

There are a number of TR4's around reliably producing in excess of 200 bhp on 87mm engines, none of which use elderly original cylinder heads, so using something original as above does limit what you can do and for most that doesn't seem to be a problem.

 

To my mind if it's a historically significant car or has history which includes that sort of preparation and use in the day, it would be a great thing if you could keep it all running and use the original bits. It's becoming increasingly rare to see original' performance bits on anything other than eBay with a big price tag attached, Much less a running car. It's similarly getting much harder to find 'samples' of the stuff use in the day for reference or indeed re manufacture so unless your chasing numbers on a dyno maybe this engine, head and manifold can go again ?

 

Regards

 

Tony

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Hi Martin. I have taken a picture of the SAH label. I hope you can see the picture:

 

20150117_1927571.jpg

 

 

 

Cheers John

Hi John. Thanks for digging it out and taking the photo. Assuming those are the valve springs I can see, the label is on the top edge, so my holes are in the right place.

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Hi

As far as I'm aware all the SAH prepared heads had that tags as shown in the post above ... Attached by a copper rivet at either end. Others had similar (presumably because they were made by the same printers ?) so the presence of holes in the right place doesn't necessarily demonstrate that it's an SAH prepared head. I have a Derrington head that's similarly adorned which I'd say would be even rarer but in my case a bit of a doorstop but it demonstrates the point. A number of the 4 works TR4 rally cars had SAH prepared heads but I'm sure that HP can add the background to that rather than me.

Hon Pres is right (of course) and is Ian C on what went on the Works TR4's and the only Photos that I've seen show what looks to be the standard production SU H6 carb manifold in use until the twin weber DCOE 45's, inlet and exhaust manifolds appeared from SAH and were homologated for 1963. That weber set up did indeed give 135bhp in the day, improved today on 3VC for example to around 155 bhp, which gives you an idea on how exhaust, camshaft and fuel technology in particular has helped the quest for power and torque.

There are a number of TR4's around reliably producing in excess of 200 bhp on 87mm engines, none of which use elderly original cylinder heads, so using something original as above does limit what you can do and for most that doesn't seem to be a problem.

To my mind if it's a historically significant car or has history which includes that sort of preparation and use in the day, it would be a great thing if you could keep it all running and use the original bits. It's becoming increasingly rare to see original' performance bits on anything other than eBay with a big price tag attached, Much less a running car. It's similarly getting much harder to find 'samples' of the stuff use in the day for reference or indeed re manufacture so unless your chasing numbers on a dyno maybe this engine, head and manifold can go again ?

Regards

Tony

Hi Tony. Thanks for the info. The only reason for suspecting it is a SAH head is the period advert shows the two together. Once I identified my manifold I turned my attention to the head. With the manifold removed you can feel that the inlet ports have been worked on. Once John said about the SAH plate, I found the rivet holes. As such it is likely that I have the pair!

 

Unfortunately I have no history with the car so I do not know if it was raced. Or whether the owner just prepared a quick road car. Other items I have noticed are a roller welded to the top of the accelerator pedal, an oil cooler fitted to the side of the radiator which looks like it has been fitted from new as thre is a dimple in the inner wing to provide clearance for one if the pipes and the radiator does not have a stay on the oil cooler side, and there is no bracket soldered to the rad for a stay to be connected to. The oil cooler itself still has the manufacturers sticker on it which states Coventry radiator and press works ℅ ltd. It has overdrive, period map light and it also seems to sit higher than other 3A's. I have not yet checked to see if it has spring spacers fitted.

 

The registration number is 244 AXO. The car was supplied from the factory to standard triumph sales London. Bill Piggott suggested it may have been a demo car, but it seems strange that a demonstrator would have been supplied from the factory with competition springs and shock absorbers. If anyone knows anything of the cars history please get in touch.

 

As regards to the use of the car. All of the period upgrades are staying on it. I will also probably put the sports steering wheel back on it. I replaced it with an original one as I thought it looked better. I am currently recommissioning the car and hopefully I will be taking it to Laon later in the year.

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Hi

 

Not a number I've ever seen before but that means nothing. Best option if you are looking for 'history' is period Motorsport publications. The London dealer connection is interesting so you should really check that out on the production records. I don't believe that it's a London plate ?

 

It's not unusual to see a list of fitments such as you describe as the Sidescreen TRs were very widely used for rallying in the 50's particularly and I've owned several with those home made mods and method of fitment of performance parts supplied by the likes of SAH, Derrington etc. in London.

 

Regards

 

Tony

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Hi

 

Not a number I've ever seen before but that means nothing. Best option if you are looking for 'history' is period Motorsport publications. The London dealer connection is interesting so you should really check that out on the production records. I don't believe that it's a London plate ?

 

It's not unusual to see a list of fitments such as you describe as the Sidescreen TRs were very widely used for rallying in the 50's particularly and I've owned several with those home made mods and method of fitment of performance parts supplied by the likes of SAH, Derrington etc. in London.

 

Regards

 

Tony

Hi Tony,

 

Copy of the report following Bill Piggott's check of the production records attached.

 

Is there an easy way of viewing period motorsport publications? or is it a matter of buying them up on ebay??

 

Kind regards

 

Martin

 

post-13231-0-85444600-1422277005_thumb.jpg

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Hi Martin,

 

I think you'll find it's a book in advance exercise at both establishments.

 

If you're looking at Haynes, phone and speak to Matt Piper, curator, mention my name (he's an old pal) - he'll be able to advise if they can assist.

 

The new buildings have improved the museum very considerably, but I don't know just what's available library wise.

 

Cheers

 

Alec

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As far as the National Motor Museum is concerned, you will have to book a visit in advance before being made welcome in the Reference Library.

 

To do that, contact Patrick Collins or Caroline Johnson on 01590 614670.

 

Access is by the Trust office entrance, which is alongside the main museum entrance, but quite separate. As far as I know, there will be no charge in gaining access, but Beaulieu makes a charge if you want any photocopying or special research carried out.

 

Hon. Pres.

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  • 5 years later...
On 1/26/2015 at 12:57 PM, marting said:

Hi Tony,

 

Copy of the report following Bill Piggott's check of the production records attached.

 

Is there an easy way of viewing period motorsport publications? or is it a matter of buying them up on ebay??

 

Kind regards

 

Martin

 

post-13231-0-85444600-1422277005_thumb.jpg

Full archive of Motorsport available online, both as PDFs of the pages and readable text. There are many ads towards the end of each issue with photos of second hand sidescreen TRs for sale.

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