peter.goreham Posted January 9, 2015 Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 Hi Daz, I've got this if you're interested. An Aley roll over bar for a TR6 surplus to requirements. This was bought probably around 1980 and never fitted. It is a single hoop design with a detachable cross brace and comes with it's original mounting kit. The model is described as FIA D/D. The attachment points appear to be at the base and top of the wheel arches. When I stripped the paper wrapping off it revealed some patches of light surface rust so would benefit from a coat of paint. Could do photos if you're interested. Peter Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Motorsport Mickey Posted January 9, 2015 Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 " Daz, Just read your OP, and all you asked for was where to get a decent roll-over bar! Not a load of santimonious "good advice"! john.r.davies " John, Had a bad day ? Perhaps if you had offered your Roll cage recommendation on your post #2 in reply to Daz's request instead of on your post 24 the rest of us subsequently offering the "sanctimonious" (?) advice on other safety mods wouldn't have had the opportunity to offer them ! Any subsequent advice regarding other similar safety and potential life saving mods to Daz was given in good faith (I'm sure also by other posters) and would help avoid any self recrimination of "why didn't I mention it to him" in the event of an incident. We have to accept that some people venturing into performance modification for the first time (this may be the position with Daz ?) are unaware of the variety of ways in which a TR falls down or can bite you. I'm sure you would prefer Daz to be made aware of these rather than blissful ignorance. Mick Richards Quote Link to post Share on other sites
boxofbits Posted January 9, 2015 Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 I agree with Pete. I found the application of the brakes a much more progressive feeling with a servo fitted, and I'm pleased I fitted it. Much preferred to that feeling of a 'solid' brake pedal with no feel, and anyone who does fit one will not want to remove it. You can lock brakes with or without a servo. It is only ABS which will prevent locking. Regards Kevin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Daz Posted January 9, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 . We have to accept that some people venturing into performance modification for the first time (this may be the position with Daz ?) Mick Richards Thanks Mike, not my first venture into performance. My Griff was 340 horse my 450SE was about 320 and my 1959 Ford Prefect about 18. My post was in search of information, knowledge is everything and I appreciate any input on any related subject. From this thread I have learned that, some roll bars are ****, I am to remove my servo, wrap my head and the dog up in pipe insulation and resist beans at all costs.... Thanks to everyone who has posted Quote Link to post Share on other sites
john.r.davies Posted January 9, 2015 Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 " Daz, Just read your OP, and all you asked for was where to get a decent roll-over bar! Not a load of santimonious "good advice"! john.r.davies " John, Had a bad day ? Perhaps if you had offered your Roll cage recommendation on your post #2 in reply to Daz's request instead of on your post 24 the rest of us subsequently offering the "sanctimonious" (?) advice on other safety mods wouldn't have had the opportunity to offer them ! Any subsequent advice regarding other similar safety and potential life saving mods to Daz was given in good faith (I'm sure also by other posters) and would help avoid any self recrimination of "why didn't I mention it to him" in the event of an incident. We have to accept that some people venturing into performance modification for the first time (this may be the position with Daz ?) are unaware of the variety of ways in which a TR falls down or can bite you. I'm sure you would prefer Daz to be made aware of these rather than blissful ignorance. Mick Richards Mick, My use of the word "sanctimonious" solely and exclusively applied to my own words. That's the problem with having an ironic sense of humour - if people think you mean it, they miss the joke entirely. JOhn Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Kiwifrog Posted January 9, 2015 Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 (edited) I think that you have to accept that if you have anything other than a minor ding in one of our cars without any safety equipment then you are going to get quite badly hurt, I think that most of the suggestions were trying to point that out. You either accept the risk or drive a modern euro box ! Cheers Alan Edited January 9, 2015 by Kiwifrog Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Motorsport Mickey Posted January 9, 2015 Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 Thanks John now understood. Mick Richards Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Motorsport Mickey Posted January 9, 2015 Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 Kevin, "You can lock brakes with or without a servo. It is only ABS which will prevent locking." I think that's the point Kevin, reduced effort to apply the brakes shouldn't be confused with more feel. Many of the racers (can't say all I don't know for sure)won't use a servo because when urgently applying the brakes it's to easy to exceed the limit of grip. The harder initial application of the brake pedal without a servo which is instantly overcome by your adrenaline (Mr A...you know when your heart leaps into your mouth ?) fuelled push will allow you to brake right up to the maximum of grip, where if you have a servo the available grip will all too easily and instantly be exceeded. All drivers should be aware that grip is apportioned by the man behind the wheel, too much speed, too much steering lock, too much braking effort are all driver failings. ABS braking was not developed to allow the car to brake better (forgetting it's plane development and application)but to allow the car to be steered whilst the maximum amount of brakes are applied up to the point of the wheel or wheels locking. Mick Richards Quote Link to post Share on other sites
peejay4A Posted January 9, 2015 Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 I don't race on the road. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Motorsport Mickey Posted January 9, 2015 Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 I don't race on the road. Quite right too. However I'm sure many TR owners use their cars performance envelope and hopefully within the current legislation applicable to public roads. Or failing that used at track days which may mean quite legally they sometimes need to apply sufficient force to their brakes which may lock the wheels. Everythings a question of degree, bit like choosing how much braking effort to apply really. Mick Richards Quote Link to post Share on other sites
wheeler Posted January 9, 2015 Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 Daz Getting back to your original post - have a look here http://www.racetorations.co.uk/cage.html and here to see what another Triumph forum is saying about roll bars http://www.clubtriumph.org/cgi-bin/forum10/Blah.pl?m-1377203958/s-15/ Cheers Bill Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Alec Pringle Posted January 10, 2015 Report Share Posted January 10, 2015 Think of it this way. A TR rolls, without a roll over bar . . . . the occupants aren't going to get out in any hurry - if they survive, that is. Then think fuel tank, filler position, flip top opening. And leakage. And consequence. Those who witness the result will hear the screams. Forty years on they'll still hear them. They don't go away. Nor do the scars that result from trying to rip someone out from a burning car. Just fit a proper bloody bar. Cheers Alec Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Motorsport Mickey Posted January 10, 2015 Report Share Posted January 10, 2015 Bill, Interesting that Club Triumph seems to be inhabited by driving Gods and experts at accident avoidance ! Lots seem to have a cavalier disregard to surviving an accident and although I'm not askance to improving the gene pool it does make me wonder about the people and families they'd leave behind. The fitment of a roll cage helps not only with roll over situations but also with side impact from White van man which is probably more likely to kill you. Review this crash test video covering some cars from the 60s onwards , carried out at 70kmph I believe, enough to make my blood run cold. See how the new designs have improved in this corresponding modern best of crash tests Mick Richards Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted January 10, 2015 Report Share Posted January 10, 2015 Hi MIck, ooer!! it looks like bigger is better, but sod the VW Santana. The compression almost went as far as the boot lid. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
boxofbits Posted January 10, 2015 Report Share Posted January 10, 2015 Hi Mick Having raced a 2.0 litre Hot Rod for a few years, I can agree that a servo is not a good choice. We didn't use them, and I don't think the rule book permitted them. When racing I agree you do have a tendency to stand on the brakes when leaving braking right to the last moment. In fact it is usually the rear brakes locking that will twitch the back end out when turning in or push which will be the problem caused by braking, but in fact not the brakes themselves. So servo or not, only correct bias, springs, camber,castor etc set up will give good braking as I am sure you know. All I am saying is that when you are driving an average modern vehicle you can get used to servo assistance for road use, and then when you jump in the TR a 'hard' pedal can potentially catch you out if you are not concentrating. Kevin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Motorsport Mickey Posted January 10, 2015 Report Share Posted January 10, 2015 Kevin, I think the "popeye" arms needed to turn a TRs steering gives you the tip when jumping from servo assisted everything everyday driver. Perhaps it's me being a wuss but doesn't everybody appraise themselves of the motoring limitations on the road before needing it for the ultimate test ? ie Drive out in the TR try the brakes until the wheels lock to give you the nod about how much brake effort is likely too much ? that sensitises your foot to the efforts needed whether servo assisted or not and how to cope without having ABS. Or when alone on the road deliberately trying a little too hard on a forgiving corner with space to run wide to judge what the road surface will take in the way of tyre loading ? Just my methods of trying to avoid heartache, I'm sure other drivers have the same or different "wrinkles" they use to establish at what level grip and car performance are conjoined. As stated previously a servo is the owners choice, it has it's own benefits and is not a panacea to achieve the best braking, but an individual decision to be made by all who drive whether to fit one. Mick Richards Quote Link to post Share on other sites
boxofbits Posted January 10, 2015 Report Share Posted January 10, 2015 Mick I doubt whether they all do acclimatise themselves first to be honest. Don't forget servos were offered as an option and eventually as standard equipment in the 1960's as the change from drum brakes to disc required more effort. Power steering was not an option, but when my TR is rolling the steering is surprisingly light. If you go out and lock up the brakes, you might actually be asking for heartache rather than avoiding it, especially if the surface is wet or damp or it pulls unexpectedly to one side for instance. I don't personally see the need to adopt either method. All I am saying is that a servo redresses some of the comparative difference when jumping from a modern vehicle into a classic vehicle, and makes braking under normal road conditions easier and thus safer, otherwise they would never have been fitted. Kevin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Motorsport Mickey Posted January 10, 2015 Report Share Posted January 10, 2015 Sometimes regression to the lowest common denominator doesn't necessarily represent progress, just reduced effort, luckily all owners have their own opinion, Mick Richards Quote Link to post Share on other sites
john.r.davies Posted January 11, 2015 Report Share Posted January 11, 2015 Crash tests were carried out in Ye Olde Dayes. Don't know about TRs but there are some videos of Spitfire tests online: Rear ender: and Frontal: Impossible to tell if the primitive crash dummies were strapped in, but look at the impact of head against windscreen surround! A rear roll hoop would not have affected that! JOhn Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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