Fireman049 Posted October 29, 2014 Report Share Posted October 29, 2014 I shall soon be recovering my TR3A sidescreens. I shall be fitting a 2mm Perspex front fixed window instead of the Cobex window. As I shan't be able to stitch the vinyl fabric to the Perspex which is the best adhesive to use? Tom. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lebro Posted October 29, 2014 Report Share Posted October 29, 2014 You used to be able to buy "Perspex cement" a solvent based product which partialy dissolved the perspex to allow you to join pieces together. I think it was based on carbon tetra chloride but don't quote me ! This may well work on the vinyl as well, so you could effectivly weld the two together. Having said all that, would not polycarbonate be a better bet for strength ? Bob. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fireman049 Posted October 29, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 29, 2014 Hi Bob ~ Many thanks for that. Yes I remember the Perspex Cement. I used it on the hood of my MGA many years ago to good effect. I already have the pre-cut Perspex windows so will have to use them. I shall trot along to my DiY store tomorrow as I'm sure they stock Perspex Cement. Cheers ~ Tom Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted October 29, 2014 Report Share Posted October 29, 2014 Make sure that the vinyl that's wrapped around the front pillar is large enough to make proper contact with the perspex. Menno Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Don H. Posted October 29, 2014 Report Share Posted October 29, 2014 (edited) Perspex (acrylic) welding cement was (and is, AFAIK) methylene chloride. I works beautifully on acrylic, but I believe it will not work on vinyl (polyvinyl chloride or PVC) to acrylic. I don't think PVC plastic pipe joining cement would work either.. Adhesives are probably a bad choice for this application, Tom. (He says as someone who's worked in polymer chemistry including adhesives for 30+ years...) Difficult materials to bond together, exterior exposure with mechanical vibration and water -- a lot of things working against success. Was there something about the thin-ish polycarbonate sheet that didn't work for you? TRF sells Bayer Makrolon brand polycarbonate sheet ready-to-use for this application, and they stitch it together just fine when they do the rebuilding. http://trf.zeni.net/TR2-TR3Handbook/33.php The materiial itself oughta be available from a number of sources. Edited October 29, 2014 by Don H. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fireman049 Posted October 29, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 29, 2014 (edited) Thank you Menno and Don. Point taken. I'll probably fit the Cobex windows which came with the kit although I've always felt that the Cobex was rather flimsy. Tom. Edited October 29, 2014 by Fireman049 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Don H. Posted October 29, 2014 Report Share Posted October 29, 2014 Cobex (a brand that doesn't get used over here) is as far as I can tell, PVC or polyvinyl chloride. I'm pretty "meh" on the use of this for windows. It's not that strong, not that hard, a little less stable on exterior exposure or contact with other materials due to plasticizers than I'd like. It's probably the same material S-T used originally, and we all know how deficient that material is.. I was very happy to have polycarbonate on mine -- a much better polymer choice, and mostly indistinguishable from the original PVC in practice. I'm sure it'll take more in use and last longer. Are you 100% sure your kit came with PVC, Tom? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fireman049 Posted October 29, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 29, 2014 Hi Don ~ Thanks for that. I got the kit from John Skinner. I'll check with them tomorrow. Tom. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 Why bother, Ken Munford does a very good fully trimmed exchange service at a very good price. Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jbenajes Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 I shall soon be recovering my TR3A sidescreens. I shall be fitting a 2mm Perspex front fixed window instead of the Cobex window. As I shan't be able to stitch the vinyl fabric to the Perspex which is the best adhesive to use? Tom. Tom, Have you considered drilling a line of small holes through the window and then sewing the vinyl by hand? I am sure that this method will be more durable than any cement with such different materials. Jesús Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Graham Harris Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 Cobex is the product supplied by TRF for the front fixed window, the word codex is etched into the material near the front corner. Graham Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Don H. Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 Cobex is the product supplied by TRF for the front fixed window, the word codex is etched into the material near the front corner. Graham Charles Runyan would be happy to hear that, Graham. He worked hard to get the "COBEX" and "PERSPEX" stamps like original on the windows. It's done for historical accuracy in concours cars -- and not intended as a description of the polymer. My windows came with the MAKROLON polycarbonate protective film intact, as shown in the images above. Here's his "PERPSEX" stamp for everyone's info. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
McMuttley Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 Stuart, does Ken do the necessary bending bashing and welding to make them fit properly first? My early wedge widescreens overlap half way past my stanchions. I had hoped that putting the hardtop on would raise the stanchions more upright, but the sidescreen metal frames still overlap the stanchions on the upper half to two thirds (they must have come off a long wheelbase car) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Graham Harris Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 Well there you go Don, you can't believe everything you read. I don't really know one from the other, i was only going on what was printed on the panel so i'm happy to stand corrected. Thanks Graham Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 Stuart, does Ken do the necessary bending bashing and welding to make them fit properly first? My early wedge widescreens overlap half way past my stanchions. I had hoped that putting the hardtop on would raise the stanchions more upright, but the sidescreen metal frames still overlap the stanchions on the upper half to two thirds (they must have come off a long wheelbase car) If you get the frames to fit your car he will get them recovered, it just takes longer. Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lebro Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 (edited) In my (limited) experience, Don't attempt to make the side screens fit until: 1) you are happy with how the doors hang, & close 2) the windscreen assembly is secure, & is the one you intend to keep 3) you fitted the hood as well as is possible to the body, & screen, & the hood frame is correctly set. Then you can start bending, swearing, more bending etc till the front of the ss's fit snugly into the stanchions, & the tops fit nicely into the horizontal pockets along the hood edge, & the rear edge of the ss is in contact with the falling edge of the hood all the way down. By the way, I had to unstitch the front of my thin plastic from the vinyl in order to adjust the angle to match the stanchion on one side, so Tom, I would get the fit right before sewing it in. This can take some time !!! but is worth persevering with. I know my ss's are 3A, but it's all I had ! Easy to fit wedges to them. Bob. Edited October 30, 2014 by Lebro Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fireman049 Posted October 30, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 Thank you Bob. I'll certainly follow your advice. Tom. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
billg Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 Bob is on the money with his advice as getting a good futon a Sidescreen car is probably the hardest job to get right. Some early TR3A' s and perhaps some TR3's had twin sliding Perspex panels rather than the stitched in Cobex. I decided to go that route and also used lift a dots to fasten the flap to the door studs. I fitted my frames to the hardtop and doors and then used the frames in situ to help the trimmer when he fitted the hood Regards. BillG@ NB Quote Link to post Share on other sites
billg Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 For "futon" read fit on !!!! damn these predictive typing gismos Bill G Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fireman049 Posted October 30, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 Thanks Bill G. Tom. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
McMuttley Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 Assuming that I have gone through all of Bob's prep, and once I have stripped all of the vinyl, what sort of gap should there be between the naked frame and the stanchion ? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lebro Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 I have never seen my frame naked ! I guess that depends on how much the vinyl protrudes forwards, as it is the vinyl edges which should get jammed into the slot in the stanchions. I would estimate around ½" I can try to measure tomorrow if required - but mine may not be the same as yours will be ! Bob. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
McMuttley Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 My vinyl at the front is as bagging as a northern soul trooper and would only get worse once the frame is bent backwards, and inwards, and upwards, and sideways and ........ .. so i assumed it would need to be replaced, that said, I prefer mine with the visible lift a dot fasteners than the current plain style Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ian Vincent Posted October 31, 2014 Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 that said, I prefer mine with the visible lift a dot fasteners than the current plain style Austin, Bob's sidescreen is set on the low side which is why the LTD are hidden. He presumably had to do this to align with his hood.. If you look at the picture of my car in the post about passing its MoT, the LTDs are more visible. Rgds Ian Quote Link to post Share on other sites
McMuttley Posted October 31, 2014 Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 Thanks Ian, both yours have a clean outside appearance, whereas mine (sorry no pics to hand) has the ltd fastners visible along the lower 'hem' of the sidescreen, ie, no blank stiff 'flap like both of yours ? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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