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Hi all,

I have saved up a bit of money and have always loved the TR range (my dad owning a 6),

I would like a car that is usable and also fast (I realise this immediately discounts all TRs but I will persist).

Do you think I would be better to purchase a 4 and make a few modifications to make it a bit quicker on a track, or should I take on the project of buying a 4A, and upgrading considerably the existing IRS to get a much more usable car that is equally as fast as the 4.

 

Would this be impossible/ too much effort for the outcome or is there any other way to achieve this?

I am not too fussed about originality as I would rather have a car that I can use than one I must preserve so any large modifications to the chassis would be considered.

 

I realise this is quite vague but I have little knowledge of how the two compare.

 

Thanks,
Sam

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Sam,

 

Welcome to the Forum.

 

The TR4 was modified in period for rally and race use and is therefore considered the better tool for the job.

The TR4A is equally capable of uprating and I prefer the ride.

Either will do your job.

Buy Roger Williams' book 'How to improve TR2 to 4A' and do some homework.

 

150Hp is quite straightforward and 180Hp is achievable if you try hard. 200Hp is possible if you want to win races.

In either case the car can handle it if suitably modified and will compare favourably to much more exotic and expensive cars.

 

Find the straightest car you can for your budget.

You will get lots of help here.

It is always more fun to drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow.

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Hi Sam

 

In terms of engine/ gearbox the two models are not dissimilar, and as I assume you intend to race one, either model would do if you are race tuning it.

 

If I were to race prepare one, I would probably go for the TR4, since it's conventional leaf spring rear axle might be more robust for racing, but I think I would consider coil overs, panhard rod and perhaps a 3 or 4 link suspension set up modification so as to change spring rates and damper settings easily.

 

The standard TR4A IRS trailing arms are a trifle quirky, and will give you positive camber in rebound, so not good for racing.

 

Regards

 

Boxy

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In response to the multi link suspension idea, how much room do you think the chassis on the 4 has compared to the 4A to fit multi link or even double wishbone? I would try to avoid changing the chassis on one if it can be achieved on the other.

 

And a bit of money is enough to buy either in poor condition, but I am capable of producing extra parts for next to no cost and same with most of the restoration.

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but I am capable of producing extra parts for next to no cost and same with most of the restoration.

 

Sam

 

Excellent. You can make one for me :) :)

 

I suggest you go on Facebook to the legend:

https://www.facebook.com/kaskastner?ref=ts&fref=t

 

You will find links to Kas Kastner books and he is still the guru for this stuff

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You could always buy a US 4a with the solid axle, that will give you a multitude of options as the front suspension is more adjustable as well.

Stuart.

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Sam.

 

Try looking at what cars win the races to give you ideas of what car to buy.

 

The TR4 has a leaf spring suspension system that can be controlled so as to give good traction and suspension movement on the track, if you wish for a more compliant ride on the road then the Tr4a will give you that but not so good "on the limit" handling as the TR4 without controlling the swinging arms and increasing spring rates such that any on road use would be jjjjjaaaarrrrring. As regards telescopics unless you are using on rallies I would be surprised if you found a big benefit and on a TR4a has the potential to break things unless set up correctly.

 

I'm slightly confused by the reference to multi link or double wishbone suspension are you thinking about doing this to the rear of the TR4 ? if so why ? Although all options are available to make the cars what you want building are you wanting a car that is purely for track or roaduse or a combination of the two ? The TR swiftly moves from being a charming easy use road car to a track car which is very quick with excellent handling and a right pain to drive on the road unless modified carefully. Perhaps you can give a little more information ?

 

Mick Richards

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I'm slightly confused by the reference to multi link or double wishbone suspension are you thinking about doing this to the rear of the TR4 ? if so why ? Although all options are available to make the cars what you want building are you wanting a car that is purely for track or roaduse or a combination of the two ? The TR swiftly moves from being a charming easy use road car to a track car which is very quick with excellent handling and a right pain to drive on the road unless modified carefully. Perhaps you can give a little more information ?

 

 

I was intending to have it being a fast road car that I can use regularly, something that is a bit more usable and adaptable than the original set up, but can also be thrown around a track at a great speed!

 

Im a big fan of adjustable set ups, and wishbone and multi link allows for all kinds of changes in camber, stiffness and allows you to set the camber change under cornering and a multitude of other things, essentially adjustability to a whole new level.

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Hi Sam,

 

Remember the TR4 is a 1960s sports car, you can alter and change various items to make vast differences utilising the existing parts available without using ultimate adjustability parts that give you the opportunity to find every wrong selection there is.

I appreciate you fancy making and building every part if you can and I suppose it's because I'm at the time of life where money is a reasonable trade off against life remaining but having made and altered probably most of the components on a TR you can think of (and quite a few you have NO idea what they would do) I can tell you that the race TR posted is a complete steal and will be considerably below the budget that you will be into if you want to go your chosen way.

 

Incidentally consider why this TR with lots of money spent on it has Weber 40s fitted rather than bling 45s ? Best of luck with your choice.

 

Mick Richards

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Sam,

 

You have a PM, (Personal message) check out the triangle to the right of your name at the top of the page, click on it and click on the Personal Message tab inside.

 

Mick Richards

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Sam,

 

You sound like a young man on a mission which is admirable.

Go for what you want.

 

The days when you could drive to the race track, win, and drive home again are over (maybe sadly.)

A decent fast road TR4A like mine would have won races in period with around 150Hp.

 

Nowadays, boys like Mickey have taken stuff to a whole new level.

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If intending to compete, whether on track or rallies, you need to read and consider carefully the regulations applicable for the type of events which interest you - then talk to those amongst the TR fraternity who compete successfully in such events. No point spending a fortune on fancy modifications and expensive hardware, then finding that the beast in ineligible!

 

Although one cannot claim that the TR4's ladder chassis has great torsional stiffness, it is inherently better than that of the IRS cars. In addition, the suspension parts are far more securely fixed to the chassis, which is useful! The performance of the TR4s in LeJog 2013 (see Tony Sheach's recent 2-part article in TR Action) shows just how tough and potent is a properly constructed TR4 in historic rallying, And a number of very quick TR4s participate in various forms of racing, sprinting and hill-climbing.

 

Ian Cornish

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Sam

 

The mounting points for a three link suspension are two lower at either end of the axle going forward to a fixing point on the roll cage, and then a link at the top of the axle to a point on the cage, usually a shorter link all rose jointed and adjustable vertically.

 

You can then fit coil overs from the axle to a point on the cage. You won't be able to adjust camber obviously, but other adjustments for grip, over and under steer are all there, which is the reason I would use it.

 

However, the bodywork would need some modifying to accommodate, so if you just need fast road without serious competition then stay with leaf springs.

 

And like someone has suggested, check your competition rules!

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