MRG1965 Posted August 6, 2014 Report Share Posted August 6, 2014 Hi, all, I have a silly question, I have wire wheels with 2 eared spinners and the question I have is, how tight should they be? I had to remove the front wheels (for the first time) to get to all the greasing points and had to resort to the copper side of the mallet and a block of wood to get them off. They were all properly greased and not seized in any way and the threads are not damaged as they spin off an on nicely so just #@5$ tight. Had to turn them (beat) nearly 1/2 a turn before they went loose. Don't want to damage the hub or the spinners by over tightening or to lose a wheel as that would be embarrassing (and expensive) to say the least, if not worse. Also I've seen the wooden spanner for the eared spinners are these any good? as I don't think you could get the spinners as tight as mine were (!) without breaking the wooden spanner. Are these any good really or just a toy? Any guidance much appreciated. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dpb Posted August 6, 2014 Report Share Posted August 6, 2014 hi there. I have a wooden spanner, which mainly I hit with a hammer to avoid hitting the spinners. It seems that I put them on quite tightly, but it seems much harder to get them off. I figured that was good. My slightly different problem is that I cannot get the hub adapter nuts on tightly enough. They work loose quite quickly. How do you do yours? Dave ==== Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted August 6, 2014 Report Share Posted August 6, 2014 Hi MRG (have you got a name) the wooden spanner in my opinion is useless (but impressive). There is a steel version, which although stronger, seriously damages the spinners. Firstly ensure you have the spinner on the correct side of the car - Righthand thread (clockwise to tighten) on nearside of car Lefthand thread (anti clockwise to tighten) on the offside of car. Do them hand tight, then tap around untill they go tight, then 3 or 4 good whacks so they are very tight. A piece of wood between mallet and spinner may reduce damage but you may need a few extra whacks. The action of the wheel on the spinner will tighten them further. Hi Dave, are you still having problems with your nuts. Remove all paint on the contact surfaces. Using a straightforward socket, tighten the nuts. How do you keep the hub from turning when tightening. I made a natty tool that works well. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
openroad Posted August 6, 2014 Report Share Posted August 6, 2014 I Bought a wooden spanner, it started breaking up on the second use......i think that probably the spinners were too tight for it. I now use a hard rubber and a plastic hammer,these tighten the spinners suffiently. The spinners do seem to self tighten during use anyway. I hope this helps, Conrad. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MRG1965 Posted August 6, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 6, 2014 Hi Dave, well in truth this is the very first time I've removed the wheels, only had the car a month or so, so very new to the whole classic thing. And it is a learning curve. My daily drive is an Audi A6 and apart from taking it for a service every 18 moths and checking under the bonnet to make sure the engine has not been stolen, the term maintenance free is scarily true. So can't really say how I've gotten on. But I agree that I'd prefer to know they actually get tighter over time rather than looser, I guess hence the left and right had threads. Mark Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AlanT Posted August 6, 2014 Report Share Posted August 6, 2014 Make this: https://flic.kr/p/nNLfA7 Will not mark chrome. Will shift them. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MRG1965 Posted August 6, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 6, 2014 Hi All, thanks, suspected the wooden spanner might be more style over substance. Thanks Roger that looks like sound advise, cheers. Alan the lead hammer looks good too. Mark Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dpb Posted August 6, 2014 Report Share Posted August 6, 2014 Roger. I am indeed still having trouble with my nuts. Will take your advice. I like the look of your tool. I'll have a go at making one I think. Cheers Dave ==== Quote Link to post Share on other sites
peejay4A Posted August 6, 2014 Report Share Posted August 6, 2014 (edited) Mark, I asked the same question a shortish while ago. There was no clear answer, tight enough about sums it up. It sounds like yours were as tight as mine now are. Especially at the rear where, even with new splines, the torque changes between acceleration and braking can cause any slack to result in a clunk which can sound like diff problems. I tighten mine really tight and no lube on the tapered portion of the wheel and hub but plenty on the threads. Forget about trying to protect the chrome on the spinners. It will get knocked about, that's patina. Edited August 6, 2014 by peejay4A Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Steve Priest Posted August 6, 2014 Report Share Posted August 6, 2014 (edited) I've always found that loosening or tightening the spinner with the road wheel off the ground helps otherwise the taper tends to bind before it's tight. Also a smear of grease on the taper before tightening makes things easier. I've used one of the wooden spanners for a few years and found it to be useful (although I think I'm in the minority here) - it protects the spinner and gives you a free hand to hold the road wheel while hammering. Roger's hub tightening tool looks the business. Otherwise a willing friend to stand on the brakes or a bit of wood between the seat and brake pedal keeps the wheel locked while tightening hub nuts. Cheers, Steve Edited August 6, 2014 by Steve Priest Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Steve R Posted August 6, 2014 Report Share Posted August 6, 2014 Dave Take the adapter off and place the nuts in the chamfered holes, if any protrude beneath the adapter then they will bottom out against the hub, they will always work loose, you will need to replace the hub as the holes are probably worn. Steve Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MRG1965 Posted August 6, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 6, 2014 Hi Steve, I have to say I'm the opposite always break the nuts with the wheel on the ground and then jack up and use the bar to loosen and remove and then tighten up well with the wheel off the ground and then fully tighten with the tyre firmly on the ground. But sounds like it needs to be a regular check. Mark Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AlanT Posted August 6, 2014 Report Share Posted August 6, 2014 (edited) You get a bit of pipe and a few pounds of old lead. You split the pipe end and open out, like a banana skin, for a few inches. Melt the lead on a camping stove or using a blow-torch. Quite easy to melt. I cast mine in a peanut tin. Make a hole for the pipe by having a small hole and bending out small flanges. Close these onto the pipe with a pipe-clip. Warning. If the tin has any kind of plastic coating inside, burn this off first, or it will out-gas and leave craters. Use a pipe which will fit over your socket-bar. You can now use this as a "cheater". The extra weight of the head helps and gives something to grab on. Alternatively, you can do do it the proper way: Edited August 6, 2014 by AlanT Quote Link to post Share on other sites
boxofbits Posted August 6, 2014 Report Share Posted August 6, 2014 When I worked in a BMC dealership, block of wood and copper mallet was official line. Two or three extra Knocks when tight should be good. Thump the outside of the tyres with your hands, with gloves on, to make sure the wheel is properly seated. A bit of copper grease on splines will not go amiss. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AlanT Posted August 6, 2014 Report Share Posted August 6, 2014 When you hit something with a hammer a proportion of the energy is wasted by the hammer bouncing back like a recoil. This gets worse with any kind of plastic or wood in the way. With lead you get whats called "a dead-blow". There is more energy transfer. You might take a dozen or more whacks to free these, if they are stuck, if you use wood. Usually one "donk" with 3lbs of lead will move it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mleadbeater Posted August 6, 2014 Report Share Posted August 6, 2014 A good few wacks with a large hide mallet seems to work, never had a lose wheel yet. Dave; Re adaptor nuts, I have used hi-strength Locktite thread lock, hope they stay tight as haven't driven the car yet. Clean thread first with solvent ( meths, whitespirit, celly thiners etc) . NB the nuts need to be slim as they will foul the wheel taper and prevent the wheel hub seating properly if too wide. Good luck Mike Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Alan Cochrane Posted August 6, 2014 Report Share Posted August 6, 2014 Mike There is such a thing a an eared spinner adaptor tool, sold for about £37. This basically fits over the three spinners and has a 38mm nut on the back to allow the fitting of an extension bar and socket. His name is Lionel and his number is 07947 712427- a very helpful and nice chappy indeed. He makes these spinner tools for various makes of classic-I have one for my E-Type and it makes spinner loosening and tightening a pleasure. Here's a photo of it:- https://www.dropbox.com/s/5uj67ueh0trgre9/Spinner%20Adaptor%20Tool3.jpg If your wire wheels are the Rudge-Whitworth type then the torque setting will be around 220lbft. This can be achieved quite easily with Lionel's tool and extension bar combo. You should also loosen and tighten your spinners once a month to overcome the natural tightening that occurs when driving. Cheers Alan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stargazergs Posted August 8, 2014 Report Share Posted August 8, 2014 Hi all Just thought I'd share this with you as there seams to be a bit of debate regarding what to use to knock on and off your spinners, I'm and engineer and and use this to to technical adjustments to items that are delicate, it works great and it comes on two sizes (mine is the 60). It is expensive but as they say you get what you pay for. I've used this for many things over the last two years and it certanly works well, it doesn't damage the item your hitting and the heads have never split or deformed (believe me when I say I've given it some hammering over the last two years). So when I get my wires this is the puppy I'll be using and I know it will work! Gavin http://s1278.photobucket.com/user/gavintr4a/media/IMG_0372_zps582edf07.jpg.html http://www.engelbert-strauss.co.uk/Tools_Equipment/Tools/Hammers/_Easy_on_hammer_simplex-7170140-5506110-0-0.html Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Motorsport Mickey Posted August 8, 2014 Report Share Posted August 8, 2014 I'm with Alan, a "dead blow" hammer either made in lead Tubal Cain style as Alan uses or a Dead blow hammer with shot in it masks any tendency to rebound and puts a better proportion of the impact through the spinner. Mick Richards Quote Link to post Share on other sites
littlejim Posted August 8, 2014 Report Share Posted August 8, 2014 After being passed by one of my 'knock-on' spinners at 80 kph, I now belt hell out of them with a copper mallet and stop to check them every now and then. They have been tight for hundreds of miles and plenty of fast cornering, but the nerves that worked the facial tic are primed and ready to go at a moment's notice. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AlanT Posted August 8, 2014 Report Share Posted August 8, 2014 Copper will work harden and eventually bits break off and it gets more able to leave marks. The lead is re-uasable. You just melt it and re-pour when its peeled out too much. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
riverstar Posted August 8, 2014 Report Share Posted August 8, 2014 Back in my younger days when I had a MG I was told to tighten hand tight then then tap to tighten a 1/4 of a turn, I must have been doing something right as in 30 years of wire wheel motoring I have never experienced any problem Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stargazergs Posted August 8, 2014 Report Share Posted August 8, 2014 My silplex Hammer is well weighted and with the Nylon (white) and the firm rubber head you can be as gentle or heavy handed as you like and you won't mark the polished surface or damage any bearings through shock transmission, I've used this hammer for setting High speed machine spindles (6000-12000 rpm with ceramic bearings) and to knock off everything from cast iron pulleys to shaft mounted gearboxes, from the pics you can't guage the size (approx 24'' end of shaft to end of head) but it's not a toffee mallet. Gavin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rodbr Posted August 8, 2014 Report Share Posted August 8, 2014 I use the following: Thor size 3 hide filled. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Thor-14-Rawhide-Hammer-Size-3-44mm-1230g-Copper-Hide-Hammers-/181294698635?_trksid=p2054897.l5672 IMHO whilst car is jacked up turn the wheel whilst tapping spinner till it goes tight, check wheel is tight by gripping either side and wiggling. Lower wheel to ground with full weight of the car and finally hit to nip up tight. There may be a difference between Chrome and painted wheels. Paint does not like to keep torque over time. Once or twice a month go round all wheels and give a tap to see if any movement and particularly if taking a long journey. That said the hub adapter nuts are the main area of concern, the points about wear and nut location and paint on the taper being well made. Never had a spinner come loose but have had hub nuts slacken (yiiiks) Correct frictional surface (i.e metal to metal) and torque required or they will come loose and let goes violently. This is not considered to be a two handed full arm swing job!!!! loosen spinner before lifting the car Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stargazergs Posted August 8, 2014 Report Share Posted August 8, 2014 looks good too Rod, my old man had one years ago and if the hides shrink or loosen just stick it in a bucket of water and they willl swell up and go tight again. Gavin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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