Rowly Posted July 3, 2014 Report Share Posted July 3, 2014 I have bought a TR3A fitted with rack & pinion steering. It is very light even with 22psi in front tyres. Currently running on 165x15 Vredestein. I want to replace the tyres either with 155x15 Pirelli Cinturato or 165x15 Michelin XAS FF Which tyre do members recommend that would also stiffen up the steering? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rhino_mac Posted July 3, 2014 Report Share Posted July 3, 2014 (edited) I've just bought 165x15 Michelin XZX tyres for my TR3a - on a steering box I'm afraid so not a great like for like, but if it helps, Longstone Tyres were doing a good deal for 5 (£516 delivered inc VAT) I'm no expert but I would have thought the only way to stiffen up the steering would be to increase the resistance of the tyres on the road. Increasing the width to 185 x 15 would do this but you'll have problems elsewhere. Lowering the tyre pressure would also increase resistance but I would have thought this would be a bad move - dangerous and they'll wear unevenly. You could always change it back to a steering box - not only more original but you'll have arms like Popeye in a week or so. Edited July 3, 2014 by rhino_mac Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Graham Harris Posted July 3, 2014 Report Share Posted July 3, 2014 Stay with the 165 Vredestein, look the part and do the job well. Graham Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Motorsport Mickey Posted July 3, 2014 Report Share Posted July 3, 2014 As pointed out the only way is to increase the tyre width and reduce the tyre profile. Suspect that's not what you want, check the toe in and see what it's set at. Mick Richards Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lebro Posted July 3, 2014 Report Share Posted July 3, 2014 Most people with SS cars long for lighter steering ! Could you fit a steering damper ? Bob. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Allan Jezzard Posted July 3, 2014 Report Share Posted July 3, 2014 Not strictly relevant to this thread, but tyre related. Having just replaced two rear tyres on my 6, I was wondering what the recommendation is for which axle the best tyres should be on. The fronts are fine but obviously the new rears are better; what do people (or tyre experts) suggest? Thanks Allan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lebro Posted July 3, 2014 Report Share Posted July 3, 2014 I would always have the best tyres on the front. That is where most of the braking force is, & where you want the most grip for steering in slippery conditions. If the back looses grip (on a corner) you can usually bring it back by backing off, if the front goes it's brown trouser time ! Bob. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Motorsport Mickey Posted July 3, 2014 Report Share Posted July 3, 2014 (edited) Sorry guys the "front or back" for tyre fitment is a question often put and easily answered. If you put new tyres onto the front of a car and then under wet conditions go downhill and at the maximum of available grip when the road surface changes or there is a slight corner you WILL lose the back end of the car. Not so serious on a track but on public roads something to be avoided. Having your best grip on the front of the car makes the rear of the car much more unstable. Yes it allows the front to turn into corners but at the limits of adhesion the older tyres at the rear with less grip will let go. Even under braking the limiting factor of the grip at the rear makes the braking unstable especially when in older cars without ABS. Do a search on the internet there should be enough tyre manufacturer recommendations to fit at the rear to persuade you. After all it's to a tyre manufacturers benefit to have you fit new tyres to the front, they wear out faster because they are new and the front tyres share two functions of braking and steering. Yet they recommend fitting them to the rear.. It's quite simple, if you turn into a corner and understeer you are going too fast. Trying to increase the friction by putting newer stickier tyres there is masking the problem of going too fast. Adjust the driving style to accommodate the road conditions and speed used, easing off the speed will allow the front end to regain grip whilst the rear end is planted by virtue of the better condition rubber. Just to back this up try www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/safety/car-tyres.html www.kwik-fit.com/tyre-rotation.asp www.Michelin.co.uk/tyres/learn-share/care-guide/ten-tyre-care-tips www.tyresafe.org/...news/69-motorists-get-their-tyres-back-to-front and because I got bored try this tyre safety loading from Youtube www.youtube.com/watch?v=3xzQQfT5084 Mick Richards Edited July 3, 2014 by Motorsport Mickey Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ashley James Posted July 3, 2014 Report Share Posted July 3, 2014 I paid £39 each for Toyo 155 x 15 radials on my TR3A, I bought them from Camskill as I did the 165 x 15 Vredesteins on my Healey, both offer similar grip, but the steering on the TR is murderously heavy. I don't really want to make it non original, but I may have to fit R & P so I can steer it, or more precisely park it. Well worn tyres are not good on the rear end of these old cars because it makes them spin so easily in the wet. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BlueTR3A-5EKT Posted July 3, 2014 Report Share Posted July 3, 2014 (edited) 3 degrees castor angle from later TR4 trunion top wishbones and ball joints perhaps to help with self centring and add a bit of weight to the steering. Cheers Peter W PS it is what Triumph did to the TR 4 early on after R&P was fitted. Edited July 3, 2014 by BlueTR3A-5EKT Quote Link to post Share on other sites
james christie Posted July 3, 2014 Report Share Posted July 3, 2014 Stick with the Vredesteins - best tyre I ever fitted to my 3A in 40 years. Try 24 psi at front and 28 at rear I also have R & P steering, but also 3° castor angle james Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BlueTR3A-5EKT Posted July 3, 2014 Report Share Posted July 3, 2014 Me too on the Vreds. Peter W Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JeffR Posted July 5, 2014 Report Share Posted July 5, 2014 I've recently changed a set of 155 x 15 Cints for Vreds on my TR3. Admittedly, the Cints were old but they still had plenty of meat on them. They looked pretty on the car but the Vreds have transformed the handling giving a much smoother ride (II think due to more flex in the sidewalls and far better grip at both ends of the car. Previously, it used to be suicidal to drive my 3 in the wet as the car would just carry straight on at the merest hint of braking. That may be due primarily to their age but my earlier experience with Cints back in the day on my Sunbeam Stilletto was exactly the same - and that was when the tyres were new. Cheers, JEFF. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rodbr Posted July 5, 2014 Report Share Posted July 5, 2014 Michilein XAS for me and the car is as I remember. Heavy at low speed but a dream on the road ish! Very sensitive to pressure differences and the long lead time is a real pain. It took around 6 months from order from Longstone but worth the wait I think. Need a set now for the alloys but will have to wait till winter while I decide what to fit. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Don Elliott Posted July 8, 2014 Report Share Posted July 8, 2014 (edited) I bought 5 new Michelin 165 SR 15 tyres for my 1958 TR3A in 1990. I drove 44,000 miles with them till 2000. !0 years old and bias ply separation gave them a "thump-thump" ride with bubbles that were quite visible. Then I put on some Kelly Springfield tyres that were advertised as being for the old VW Beetle. They lasted 14,000 miles so I put on Vredesteins in 2004. I was very pleased with the road-holding ability for 10 years and 33,300 miles. I just put on 4 new 165 R 15 Vredestein Classics (this time with H speed rating = 130 MPH) and they all that I could ask for. Don Elliott, Original Owner, TS 27489 LO Edited July 8, 2014 by Don Elliott Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Don H. Posted July 8, 2014 Report Share Posted July 8, 2014 Hey Don -- Your car looks good. That's after last year's accident and bodywork, yes? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sidescreen Posted July 8, 2014 Report Share Posted July 8, 2014 (edited) All the tyres they made nowaddays are not the same as the era our TR's came from, Pirelli's are "Made in Turkey" and "For vintage cars only" as on the tyre... Michelin's XZX and XAS are from the 70's and not from the 50's and early 60's. So, why not choose for Vredestein again with their old fashioned profile and logo ? I'm very satisfied about my new Vredestein's, with good old fashioned looks and very affordable instead to the others... Good luck with the right choice - Raymond Edited July 8, 2014 by sidescreen Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Don H. Posted July 8, 2014 Report Share Posted July 8, 2014 I run Vredestein Sprint Classics, too. Very happy with them. (A good made-in-Holland product, eh, Raymond?) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BrianC Posted July 8, 2014 Report Share Posted July 8, 2014 If you aren't desperate for a period-style tread pattern, then the Vredestein T-Tracs are excellent and considerably cheaper than the Classics. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rodbr Posted July 8, 2014 Report Share Posted July 8, 2014 Hi Raymond, Actually according to Longstone tyres Quote "It was in 1946 that Michelin applied for a patent on the radial tyre, thereby crowning many long years of research. Studying the principal of a separation of functions between the tyre tread and the side wall the Michelin engineers designed a tyre with open side walls made up of steel cords laid radially. This experimental Michelin tyre called cage à mouches (fly trap) demonstrated that the greatest amount of heat is produced by the repeated flexing of the sidewalls and not the crown. However, this tyre lacked directional stability forcing the engineers to develop a way of reinforcing the crown of the tyre with layers of steel under the tread. This brought about the birth of the famous Michelin X tyre. (The first production car to be equipped with the Michelin X was the Lancia Aurelia in 1951.) This was the inauguration of an extensive family of Michelin car tyres, which would undergo many technological developments. The first of this family, the Michelin ZX improved the performance of the X tyre in terms of ease of driving and comfort. Concurrently, Michelin was involved in research in developing a tyre for racing cars based on the radial technology. These years of research led, at the end of 1965, to the launch of the Michelin XAS tyre. The XAS was a radial tyre with an asymmetrical casing construction and tread pattern. Research carried out on speed led to Michelin investigating low profile tyres. The principal of a tyre with a section width greater than its height dates back to 1937 with the Michelin Pilote tyre. Therefore I would conjecture that to fit XAS to a Nov 59 Tr3a is not correct but is a very reasonable period upgrade but expensive by comparison to the fredstine! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sidescreen Posted July 8, 2014 Report Share Posted July 8, 2014 Don Indeed a bit chauvinistic maybe , and on the other hand a good value for money. Rod Thanks for your comprehensiv explanation, I knew XAS would be not the best period choice that's why I'm glad I choose for the Vredestein's... Cheers - Raymond Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ashley James Posted July 8, 2014 Report Share Posted July 8, 2014 Here you are and either with be more than good enough and 25,000 times better than OE ones. http://www.camskill.co.uk/m53b0s477p0/Car_Tyres_-_MPV_Tyres_-_People_Carrier_Tyres_-_15_inch_R15_inch_-_155_80_15_155_80R15_R15_inch_-_155_15_155R15 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Don Elliott Posted July 10, 2014 Report Share Posted July 10, 2014 Don H - Yes, that's a very recent photo of my 1958 TR3A after I got it back in June from the classic car restoration shop where it spent the winter. The front was really banged up in a rear-end collision last October. The reason they took so long was that they were preparing 172 antique and classic cars to ship them by tractor-trailer (2 or 3 shipments per week) to an auction that was in Auburn, Indiana in May. No one was hurt (except my pride) and the insurance covered all the costs because I had a "zero-deductible clause" in my policy. The upper part of the front valance and the bumper came from Marv in Alabama. I had a local metal working shop fabricate the lower part for the valance. I am very pleased with the results. See before and after That's the body man with me. The new Vredesteins can be seen in the recent photo. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Don H. Posted July 11, 2014 Report Share Posted July 11, 2014 (edited) The car looks terrific, Don! The Vredesteins are a nice tire for it. And in all seriousness, did the paintwork look that good in 1958? Edited July 11, 2014 by Don H. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
McMuttley Posted July 11, 2014 Report Share Posted July 11, 2014 It isn't clear from the Vred' website what the real difference is between classic and T-Trac ? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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