tr5 Stainless petrol tanks

[harrytr5]

Today I have discovered on a friends TR5 Ali petrol tank, fatigue cracks around the mounting brackets.I have seen a few like this and it aint good.The original tank forms part of the structure so I am led to believe, hence my quest for a stainless tank.

Thanks for all the replies and technical welding problems with stainless.

Regards Harry

[Alec Pringle]

Unfortunately Harry, the majority of aluminium alloy tanks that I've seen have proved to be ****, to a greater or lesser degree, even though some of these have come from reputable marque suppliers at healthy prices. Proving once again that we don't always get what we pay for.

 

Even worse, the reaction of some suppliers . . . . as in it's 5 years old, long out of warranty, we don't deal with that manufacturer any more, and the fact that it's had 2000 miles of gentle DSUO is neither here nor there . . . . etc etc etc

 

I'd be interested to hear if anyone has had any problems with Andy Wiltshire's tanks ?

 

Cheers

 

Alec

[TorontoTim]

I'm happy to give a full report on Andy's x-large tank at the end of August when I'm back from my 4,500 mile rally to Alaska. :-)

[BrianC]

Should we really be too keen to use either ally or SS considering that original steel tanks lasted for decades, as well as providing the requisite strength? Most only failed as a result of the bottoms rotting out due to sitting on felt pads in a pool of water for much of their life. We now take greater care over keeping the water out of the boot, although with limited success, so just regular inspection and draining of the area under the tank should ensure that a new steel tank will outlive most of us and our immediate descendents.

[AlanT]

I think the new fuel types are the reason for the desire to upgrade.

 

I tend to agree that a readily produced mild-steel tank, that gets replaced, is better than trying to make something from stainless that will "last forever".

 

The problem with liquids is that they are unstable and tend to contain "stuff" that you didn't think was in there.

[RogerH]

Aah, 'stuff'. The problem with 'stuff' is that it is variable. Did you know there is no British Standard for 'stuff'. You think you have it sorted and then along comes different 'stuff'.

 

Back to tanks. I was speaking to a supplier the other day and he was adamant that there was a requirement for new mild steel (original) tanks to be remade.

Mild steel is lovely 'stuff'. Strong(ish) yet ductile, very forgiving.

 

Why have exotic materials when you can have 'stuff' that works well with a long life and proven track record.

 

Now where did I put my hammer and dolly.

 

Roger

Edited April 22, 2014 by RogerH

[Lebro]

That's no way to speak about your wife !

[Andy Brady]

FWIW, a firewall will also stiffen up the rear bodywork significantly.

[Andy Moltu]

The tanks were not intended to be structural however they do take a load when the tub flexes which can be an issue for ali tanks made of thinner aluminium. The two solutions are to make the mountings "loose" with nylon washers (and use hefty gauge plate) or attach the mountings via a strap which is loosely attached to the tank so the strap does the flexing.

[Ragtag]

Thanks Ragtag,

Colin is not making anymore which is why the appeal for someone who is.

John Sykes (TR Bitz) is looking into it and hopefully coming up with a positive answer this coming week.

The more he is aware of what we need, it might just get done.TR Bitz tel no 01925 756000.

Regards Harry

 

Hi Harry,

 

That is bad news as I always intended buying one but never got roundto it. Did Colin say why he has stopped supplying them? So far as I am aware, he didn't make them himself but had them made to order.

[harrytr5]

Hi Ragtag,

I think it was down to the cost involved. He does however make a Ali one which is the best I have seen.It is engineered to take the stressed area,s into account.As it is so new, time will tell of course.

Regards Harry

[TorontoTim]

Here's a photo of my large capacity tank made by Andy Wiltshire - top quality.

 

[Peter Vernon]

I also recommend Andy Wiltshire - top quality work.

+1 for Andy. Sometimes a bit of a wait but well worth waiting for.

 

Peter

[Don H.]

...As polymer tanks are illegal for road use...

 

 

Peter, did I miss some important context here? Fluorinated polyethylene fuel tanks are the default standard these days in our market, AFAIK, and have been for years. They're illegal in Britain?

[Peter Cobbold]

 

 

Peter, did I miss some important context here? Fluorinated polyethylene fuel tanks are the default standard these days in our market, AFAIK, and have been for years. They're illegal in Britain?

It must be OK if they are the manufacturer's OE.

 

The polythene tanks I'm interested in - for neat ethanol - are these:

http://www.rallydesign.co.uk/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=32&products_id=1863&osCsid=0hfk8jtj3e1d4ocumfbgge8bl7

http://www.classicworldracing.co.uk/fuel.html

Somewhere I found a restriction on road use...but cant find the bookmark.

 

 

There's also an epoxy coating for aluminum that is safe in 100% ethanol: http://www.tankcareproducts.co.uk/#

 

Decisions, decisions...

 

Peter

[Ian Vincent]

A few years ago I project managed the design of an intermediate level nuclear waste store. The design called for stainless tanks that were guaranteed to last a minimum of 25 years without corroding. We spent a lot of money with AEA coming up with the best option.

 

The issue with stainless is crevice corrosion. Once it starts, it migrates along the grain boundaries leading to the pin holing referred to at the start of this topic. You have to go to the very exotic SS alloys to be confident that it won't be an issue. Chlorides are a major problem but there are other chemicals that have the same effect.

 

Rgds Ian

[AlanT]

Thanks for your support on this.

 

This is exactly what I wrote in the first sentence of the first reply.

 

However I'd guess that almost any kind of stainless will last 10 years.

But then an ordinary steel one would do the same.

[TorontoTim]

Just a quick follow-up as promised on my tank from Andy Wiltshire.

 

I haven't had the tank in a long time, so can't comment on any debate regarding material and fuel interaction. However, I have done ~9,000 rallying miles with it and can report that it performed excellently in terms of robustness, rigidity etc. It is an "extra large" size (which means that the usual bevelled bottom corners are made square so that the tank is, roughly, a rectangular prism) and mine's foam-filled.

 

I mounted it solidly to the car i.e. with no rubber in or around the mounts to "cushion" it. The mounting points are very strong and I see no ill effects whatsoever in terms of cracking. It's also worth mentioning that a lot of the miles I have done were very rough roads - two dirt roads of more than 100 miles each, plus several others more than 50 miles. The kind of roads where you are playing "dodge the pothole" for hours on end... The exhaust on my TR4 worked all its joints loose over the same roads, and the steering rack developed some noticeable play in one of the inner ball joints. But the tank stood up to it perfectly.

 

I continue to highly recommend Andy's work.

[Cew]

I am fairly sure that if Triumph Motors had painted the steel tanks properly instead of just showing them the spray booth ,they would probably have outlasted the car.In short a mild steel one treated adequately would be as good as any other material.

[Paul Down]

But as these cars age the problem is not just from leaks but from rust dropping off the inside of the tank and blocking the fuel lines.

 

This is a perennial problem with PVT and Vintage cars, sloshing the tank with some magic goo used to be a solution but with modern petrols much of this now falls off and makes the situation worse.

 

SS certainly solves this problem !