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New to TRs - oil advice please


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Hello!

New to TR ownership and just got my first TR home and very pleased with her.

TR3A 1960 with overdrive gearbox.

Searching around I see conflicting information on oils. What do you suggest for the engine (20W50 I guess?) The overdrive gearbox - SAE 40 or 50 or what? Previous owner suggests 20w50.

Any suggestions and advice much appreciated. Thank you!

Andrew

Swanage

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Welcome Andrew and congratulations on your new TR !

 

There is quite a lot of history on the forum debating oils ........ both for engine and for gearbox !

 

For the engine consensus seems to be to go for a NON synthetic 20W50 either specifically aimed at classics or one of the few remaining basic brands.

 

Penn, Valvoline, Halfords all seem to be recommended as containing the right additives for our old engines.

 

As for gearbox, some recommend the 'right' gearbox oil strongly, others strongly recommend using the same oil as in the engine.

 

Personally i go for Valvoline Racing 20W50 in the engine , on special this week from Euro Car Parts at about £23 for 5l, and the correct grade of Gearbox oil in the egarbox. Just make sure you don't go for a GL5 oil as apparently this is incompatible with some of the gearbox inards. I use 80ep GL4 for the local motor factor.

 

HTH

 

steve

Edited by SDerbyshire
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You will get lots of advice on both issues, but virtually any 20W-50 should be OK for a standard or mildly tuned engine. I've been using Penrite HPR30 20W-60 for 22,000 miles as that's what the engine builder put in initially.

 

You need to be more careful with the overdrive gearbox though and there are lots of posts on this. The main thing to bear in mind is not to mix engine oil and EP, so if you have to top-up the gearbox, check what is already in there. If your gearbox has the dipstick like mine, you should be able to sniff it - there is a distinct difference in smell between the two types of oil. Otherwise, it's a case of suck it and see. Some overdrives work better with one or the other. I've used both straight 50 grade engine oil and EP in the past and currently top-up with Comma EP80W-90 GL-4 as my gearbox/overdrive builder originally filled it with EP. Do not use GL5!

 

Stand back for an avalanche of different opinions (or use the search facilty - there's plenty to keep you confused!)

 

[Edit: Cross-posted with Steve]

Edited by BrianC
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Yes, pretty much unanimous so far Steve (2 out of 2 ain't bad). Glad you mentioned about not using synthetic in the engine. I forgot to include that caveat, although some people do use it in competition or highly modified engines.

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I agree for the engine but have used over the years - straight SAE W 30 and 20W50 but my preferred oil now for gearbox and overdrive is ST90 from Castrol. I was told by a Castrol technical rep years ago that wet clutches like those found in motorbikes and overdrives do not like EP additives. The EP bit are heat seeking lubricants and will be attracted to the clutch plates, which you do not want slipping. Could be all bo..ocks but I have happily used non EP oils since 1972 in my TR ' s overdrive gearboxes.

 

In the old days we used to buy 3 gallons of Duckhams 20w50 and do the engine and gearbox/overdrive all with the same stuff. Our local motor factor used to fill our empty 1 gallon oil cans from his barrel for 75p a go. Total cost with engine filter, points and condenser from C&B NSF was under a fiver all in - plus you got a Saturday afternoon's jolly chat with PAB and all those new and exciting things he and PSC had found for us TR owners. I recall seeing a new IRS chassis down the side of his garage once - who in their right mind would want one of those let alone consider restoring an IRS car! - it was already sold of course.

 

 

Cheers

Peter W

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Welcome aboard Andrew.

 

In respect of the engine, main thing is to use a pre SM rating oil. Newer formulations from SM onwards are essentially for roller rocker engines where zinc (ZDDP) can safely be reduced to prolong catalytic converter life. Our engines, known as of "flat tappet" design (where the cam lobe scrapes across the lifter), need a specific amount of ZDDP to lube the cam lobe/lifter interface, or the engine will eventually suffer a wallet emptying failure. Steer clear of fully synthetic oils. They are really good for modern cars, but our seals and gaskets are of a bygone era and work better with less slippery mineral oils.

 

As for the gearbox, it depends whether it has an overdrive or not. The factory recommendation for either type was straight SAE30 (or SAE 40 in slightly hotter climates). That's an engine oil rating with the equivalent in an acceptable gear oil being 80W 90. Avoid oils with foaming additives, or ingredients that will eat brass synchro rings. No synthetic oils for overdrives.

 

Confusing isn't it ?. Still makes my head hurt after having as many TR's over the years as hot dinners.

 

Rgds,

 

Viv

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Many, many thanks to all of you have welcomed me on board and responded with sage advice - all much appreciated and so very quick! What an amazing forum! I'm really looking forward to the summer months and lovely open-top TR motoring. Now all have to do is buy the lubricants to your recommendations and roll up my sleeves . . .

Thanks everyone!

Best wishes,

Andrew

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In respect of the engine, main thing is to use a pre SM rating oil. Newer formulations from SM onwards are essentially for roller rocker engines where zinc (ZDDP) can safely be reduced to prolong catalytic converter life. Our engines, known as of "flat tappet" design (where the cam lobe scrapes across the lifter), need a specific amount of ZDDP to lube the cam lobe/lifter interface, or the engine will eventually suffer a wallet emptying failure.

And, as a guide, look for oils which say either "Classic" or "Racing" in the title as these will almost certainly have the extra levels of friction reducing ZDDP. Then look at the small print to make sure it's SL or earlier.

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need a specific amount of ZDDP to lube the cam lobe/lifter interface, or the engine will eventually suffer a wallet emptying failure.

Absolutely! Most 'Classic' oils contain enough. There's enough info here about the correct amount in the oil of your choice.

 

Menno

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I was told by a Castrol technical rep years ago that wet clutches like those found in motorbikes and overdrives do not like EP additives.

 

I see Moss have added a range of Dynalite gearbox oils to their website, and they appear to say the same, Peter.

 

"These two multigrade oils replace the SAE30 & 40 as well as the EP80 & EP90 commonly used in gearboxes. They are compatible with straight-cut and synchromesh gears, and safe for use in overdrive units. They do not contain any "EP" type additive that would destroy metals such as bronze, copper or brass. These oils do not contain any friction modifier additive causing slipping of overdrive clutches and preselected gearboxes"

 

Anyone familiar with the Dynolite oils? Haven't tried them myself . . . (currently running Comma EP80W-90 GL4).

 

Cheers, Deggers

Edited by Deggers
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Whilst I remember ....... I recommend using a K&N oil filter, because it has a nut welded on the end for easy and clean removal.

 

Part number is hp-2009 assuming you have a spin on filter conversion jot the original cartridge.

If you don't have a spin on filter conversion then FIT ONE NOW !

 

HTH

 

Steve

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Hi Steve, thanks for the info on the K&N spin-on/off filter. My car already has the conversion and I got a Champion C160 cartridge off e-bay this week.

 

Back to oil - as Brain posted there's plenty of conflicting advice out there! Halfords has their own brand 20W50 and an EP80W/90 GL4 both a good prices.

The owner's manual states a 90 viscosity for the gearbox and overdrive with Shell Spirax 90 being quoted as EP. (attached)

I think I'll try the EP route as several posters here and elsewhere suggest it's worked well for them. I can always try something else next time round.

 

Deggers - yes, I just received my Moss catalogue and noticed the Dynolite oils. Too much choice out there!. Nice picture by the way I love Cornwall been going to Trevose head most summers for nearly 20 years. My bit of the Dorset coast is lovely but south of Padstow is just gorgeous and more sea bass off the rocks than I ever see here in Dorset :)

Regards

Andrew

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post-12702-0-67854500-1397204406_thumb.jpg

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Nice picture by the way. I love Cornwall

 

Cheers Andrew. Yes, the old Duchy's a beautiful little corner of the world . . .

 

I was lucky enough to grow up here in the eighties (nothing better after school than running to the beach for a swim with the friends!). Long summer days, great surf, and BBQs at sundown :) (fingers crossed for more of the same this year!!). Give us a shout if you're out and about. All the best, and enjoy your new TR!

 

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Cheers, Deggers

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Hi Deggers

Nice sunset, we were lucky to have some of those last summer on holiday in Cornwall! We'll be around Trevose Head (Mother Ivey's Bay caravan site) over the bank holiday at the end of August. But not with my TR - wouldn't be fair to ask her to pull the caravan all that way.

All the best

Andrew

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Always lots of yummy spider crabs off the rocks above Harlyn. You have to dive for them though.

Spent every summer hol at Harlyn bay campsite in the 70.s, & 80's Took TR the 1st time (camping) with trailer in tow.

After that it was pulling a caravan behind a succession of other cars (see list below)

Happy days.

 

Bob.

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Just posted this elsewhere because of misinformation on fully synthetic oils.

 

Fully synthetic oils virtually eliminate wear for the following reasons.

 

1. When an engine is stood for a long time, the oil sticks to all surfaces better than conventional and so protects it better on start up.

 

2. Because it's thinner when it's cold it gets everywhere more quickly and reduces the chances of wear on start up.

 

3. Because it is thicker hot it actually increases oil pressure.

 

4. Because it withstands higher temperature and pressures, it is more effective at stopping wear of cam lobes and top piston rings.

 

5. Because it doesn't easily dissolve in petrol, it's not washed away by excessive petrol if the engine is choked or flooding.

 

It does not make engines more leak prone and it is recommended for all engines. Rolls-Royce recommended it for all theirs and P&A Wood the World Heritage R-R dealers even use it in their First World War Fighter plane with a Rotary engine because it cured certain problems.

 

Several manufacturers make fully synthetic oils for old cars and I use Mobil 1 10/60 in my Healey 3000 and cheap 0/40 in my Bentley.

 

If you're interested in the facts and not the usual old wives tales, Google Mobil 1 for old engines on YouTube. You'll find one video where they dismantled a Merc engine with 600,000 miles on it and the big ends were so perfect you could sell them as new. There are a few good Mobil videos and a few from idiots contradicting them. That's the internet for you.

 

It's expensive and you may not do many miles, so it probably doesn't matter if you don't use it, but it is a hell of a lot better at protecting engines than conventional oils.

_________________

www.kda132.com

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