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Andy Field

Windscreen Rake Angle

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Hi,

 

I have acquired a 'surrey' steel roof panel and prior to any restoration work, I offered up it up for fitting. For it to fit, the top of the windscreen needs to swing forward about 10mm. My question is can the angle of the windscreen be altered and then fixed to allow fitting and removal of the roof panel without slackening the windscreen fixings every time?

 

Thanks Andy

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You can always alter, everything is possible. But why don't adjust the backlight frame for a start - going backward for that matter. Also, check this tread: http://www.tr-register.co.uk/forums/index.php?/topic/45373-suury-top-gaps/

Edited by Geko

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If you alter the angle of the screen-frame the gap between the leading edge of the glass and the frame will be affected.

 

Possibly this is at present too small at the top?Lots of them are. If so correcting the gap and making the top fit is good.

 

The whole way the screen-frame is clamped meeans that it tends to be pulled backwards at the top. Basically it pivots about the rubber-seal as you tighten the clamp bolts. So tipping it foward is hard going. 10mm, 3/8 in, quite a bit. You may get 6mm without too much effort.

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If you alter the angle of the screen-frame the gap between the leading edge of the glass and the frame will be affected.

 

Possibly this is at present too small at the top?Lots of them are. If so correcting the gap and making the top fit is good.

 

Hi Alan,

 

Come to think about it, I seem to remember that the door window, when fully wound up, touches the top of windscreen frame. i will check at the weekend.

 

Thanks for the information.

 

Andy

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The thing to realise is that as you tighten the nuts, you draw the frame into the two brackets, that mount to the inner wings.

 

The front edge is held tight to the front deck by the rubber. So the frame has to tip backwards.

 

These nuts at the end of the brackets need to be slackened and then you add packing washers.

Now it will sit up more.

 

But there is a penalty to pay. The ends of the seal will open up more, so you can't over-do this

packing or there will be a gap and a leak.

 

The three wings and aluminium clips that keep the centre down are not stiff enough to pull the

rubber down more and close the gap for you.

 

Often guys will have over tightened these nuts and then you see the window glass hitting the frame top.

(there are other reasons for this)

 

Like all of this there is a bit of adjustment but not much.

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Like Neil says get the doors to fit correctly first with an equal gap front and rear.

Leave the nuts under the rear frame loose as there is a little movement in the frame fore and aft.

Make sure that the screen frame tubes slide easily in the brackets with a bit of grease or copperslip on the tubes.You may need shims behind the mounting brackets so they are sitting right in relation to the tubes.

Classic mistake is to tighten the bottom nuts on the tubes too early. Dont. The side brackets are the real fixings for the screen angle and the nuts on the bottom just help to apply final pressure to the lower rubber You may have to elongate the holes in the sides of the front deck where the fixing bolt for the bracket and the clamp bolt for the bracket are located.to achieve a correct angle first. Bolt the roof down with the screen moveable on the brackets and with the two side bolts for the clamp bracket located but not tight. Fit the bolts across the dash top but dont tighten fully.Do the nuts up on the tubes until they just start to contact the brackets. Wind up the windows and see how they fit all round.Very often when changing from soft top to Surrey top the top window height stop does need adjusting to stop the glass hitting the roof.

Once you are happy with the fit all round then do up the front bolt of the two on the side of the scuttle (Also holds the top rear of the wing in) this holds the clamp bracket in correct angle and must be tight along with the lower bolt on the clamp.Then do up the rear frame nuts checking that the screen angle isnt moving and that the roof bolts will still turn easily (Just back off the roof bolts one turn and then tighten again) now do up the nuts on the bottom of the tubes going from side to side a turn at a time making sure that the front lower screen rubber is seating out on the front deck correctly as it will try and turn in under. Once the screen is down far enough (You dont need to ream those nuts up too hard) so the rubber has spread out correctly stop doing up the bottom nuts and then do up the 3 bolts across the dash top, dont overdo them as all it will do is pull the deck up Then do up the two clamp bolts either side of the front deck (Rear one of the two.) You may need to fit some extra sealant in the edge of the screen to front deck rubber at the "A" post ends afterwards.

Stuart.

Edited by stuart

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This is one of those not very well designed things that is counter-intuitive.

It looks like you do something but actually its wrong and you do something else to make it work.

 

All the time you are fighting to stop the pull-down nuts tipping the screen backwards and at the same time set the seal tight.

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If you have the mounting brackets in the right place then the pull down nuts dont alter the rake.

Stuart.

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Probably not if:

 

1. you have the correct original rubber

 

2. havne't had to rebuild the bottom half of the screen frame

 

3. have the original thickness and type of crash pad

 

4. have the bracket fixing holes in the exactly correct original positions

 

5. have the threaded parts of the screen frame in original un-bent condition

 

Basically this probably worked fine when originally built. But there seem to be quite a lot about that are not meeting all these requirements.

 

A common thing that comes up on here is the screen-frame too close to the top of the glass.

If you can improve this by slackening a couple of nuts it seems worth a go.

 

I have a Moss crash pad. Its too thick. Repro parts again. This messes the back edge of the screen frame.

Sure I could cut it off. Then the repro rubber seal would be a bit too thin.

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Probably not if:

 

1. you have the correct original rubber

 

2. havne't had to rebuild the bottom half of the screen frame

 

3. have the original thickness and type of crash pad

 

4. have the bracket fixing holes in the exactly correct original positions

 

5. have the threaded parts of the screen frame in original un-bent condition

 

Basically this probably worked fine when originally built. But there seem to be quite a lot about that are not meeting all these requirements.

 

A common thing that comes up on here is the screen-frame too close to the top of the glass.

If you can improve this by slackening a couple of nuts it seems worth a go.

 

I have a Moss crash pad. Its too thick. Repro parts again. This messes the back edge of the screen frame.

Sure I could cut it off. Then the repro rubber seal would be a bit too thin.

There is nothing wrong with the repro lower screen rubbers and I have fitted a fair few of them. TR Shop do correct dash pads and anything else is a waste of money and doesnt look right as well as not fitting right. If the screen frame is bad enough to warrant having to repair that much of it then its better to try and find another one to start with.The threaded portion of the frame tubes are just straight bolt threads welded in the end of the tubes. A trial fit of everything will show up how the brackets and the tubes go together, the only alteration is usually a slight elongation of the mounting holes each side of the scuttle and the lower bracket hole which is already elongated a bit. Any alteration of the holes required will show up during the build process.

Stuart.

Edited by stuart

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Did some more measurements at the weekend and the screen needs to swing forward only about 5mm to allow the roof panel to fit. Once achieved this will also permit the windows to wind up fully without clashing with the edge of windscreen capping.

 

Thanks for all the information.

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My hardtop fitted OK with the windscreen where I had plonked it after the reconstruction.

When the Moss Surrey top arrived I had to pull the screen back as far as I could, hold it in position with rope, then do up the nuts at the bottom of the screen extension. The Surrey was a couple of inches away from position prior to that.

I also left the Surrey out in the (Oz) sun with weights on it to get a bit of stretch. Eventually I was able to struggle the press studs into position over the bar in the middle, and struggle the bolts at the back through the holes.

The front bit was always hard to get far enough under the capping but now, after about eleventy twelve goes, it has stretched enough to just fit firmly.

Time, a few goes, and a bit of sun have made things easier.

Edited by littlejim

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Ola, being in the process of fitting a new surrey lid I needed to fiddle with the windscreen rake for the lid to fit. I already succeeded to win a couple (yes, 2) of mm by moving the backlight frame backward. Now the windscreen frame sits in the correct position with the glass properly aligned, but.... the bracket captive nuts are offset from the holes. My question is: should I 1/ elongate the deck holes (Stuart's advice) or 2/ remove the bracket and start fiddling with it. I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place: going for 1/ implies removing the door while going for 2/ implies removing the bracket which in turn implies dismantling the dash or part thereof.... What's the best shot 1/, 2/ or ...3/ ?

 

tks

 

PS: I have a Dremel :)

Edited by Geko

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The bracket is too high up really.

 

First thing I would try is my old friend the fid.

This is a 5/16in dia rod with a 2in taper running to a point.

Push in top hole and the lever bracket down.

 

You will get a bit this way I think, but maybe not enough to get the bolt in. Then comes my friend the taper-tap

It would not bother me buying a cheap tap and shorten/grind so I could sneak in with the door on.

 

Failing that I'd be sneaking in with some mini-grinder. You don't need much metal off.

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Dremel on the rear hole by just a small amount will be the quickest, dont forget to touch in the bare metal round the hole when you have finished.

Stuart.

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Thanks guys, it worked with the Dremel without removing the door but wooooh that was tight.

 

Pics show before and after RH side

Edited by Geko

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