Gearbox on way out?

[tr6wilts]

Hi

 

Working through my list of minor challenges, locks, fuel sender, SU tuning, Brakes.......

 

But I have noticed a crunch changing up into and down into second (just aquired car). its fine if I pause for a second before engageing or double declutch, so looking for some experienced opinion:

 

IS this "normal" and I shouldnt worry (sorry is this is a stupid question).

 

or is the box on the way out.....

 

 

If it is the box, for a very basic mecanic is it better to take the car to a TR specialist box in place (connected) to sort, or remove and find a gearbox specialist, and get them to fix?

 

And any recomendations as far as gearbox specialists.....

 

Thanks

 

 

Rich

 

 

[RobinTR6]

No crunching isnt normal. 2nd gear synchro gets the hardest time and is usually first to go. Its a common problem and any specialists would be able to sort. Has the gearbox got the correct amount and type of oil in it (would be my first port of call), also it may just need adjusting.? Wait for some more expert opinion before proceeding. Defo check gearbox oil tho as this is a no brainer.

[Bill Bourne]

Hi Rich

 

In addition to the above. Just a thought - Most Tr's I know will be difficult to get into 2nd when the car is cold. Mine does. But after 5 mins or so, and warmed up then it's fine.

 

Best Bill

[jerrytr5]

Drain the oil (and clean filter if o/d equipped) and see what comes out.

If nothing major drops out, you can live with the worn syncro, and there are no other noises then I'd be tempted to run it for a bit.

On the other hand, chunks of metal in the drain can could lead you beating a path to a gearbox rebuilder in which case - brace yourself as it's unlikely to stop with a couple of syncro cones.

It's not that difficult to remove the box and dismantle, but putting it back together tends to require a bit of experience.

Search on here for gearbox rebuild and you should get a few hits.

Jerry.

[Dave McDonald]

Rich

You don't say if your car has overdrive or not. If it is a CP series car with A type overdrive on 2nd gear and you are changing into 2nd with overdrive engaged it is easy to crunch the change, particularly when changing down.

If you don't have overdrive on 2nd gear or are getting the crunches when changing gear with overdive disengaged then it is probably synchro cones as others have said above.

Best bet in my opinion for a gearbox and/or overdrive rebuild is to take the unit out and take it to Pete Cox in Redditch/Bromsgrove area. That's approx 100miles from you but worth the trip. He's well respected and priced competitively. He only does gearboxes/overdrives and diffs.

If you don't want to go that far you could try Colin Mathews at CTM Engineering at Curbridge, Southampton, a lot nearer to you. I don't know if they do their own gearboxes or send them out to someone else. Either way he is likely to be more expensive than Pete Cox.

Dave McD

[tr6wilts]

Thanks all, I will check oil first then if necessary get box fixed, I see there are some scary prices for recon boxes, I hope a rebuild is cheaper? it is an OD version, and It does it with the OD disengaged.

Edited January 15, 2014 by tr6wilts

[tr6wilts]

Contact details for Pete Cox?

[Dave McDonald]

Rich

Pete Cox

Dave McD

Edited January 15, 2014 by Dave McDonald

[tr6wilts]

Thanks Dave

[Alec Pringle]

Dave,

 

may I suggest you delete Pete's number ?

 

I don't somehow think he'll be best pleased at seeing it in print . . . .

 

Cheers

 

Alec

[Dave McDonald]

Alec

Number deleted.

Dave McD

[AlanT]

Do NOT go for a recon box. Very likely that this will still have the old layshaft bearings. These are tricky to do.

 

Take the box out and use one of the reliable rebuilders known to this forum.

They are a DIY possible. I did mine but you need to fabricate a few tools to do a good job.

 

Actually you could probably use this if you double-declutch. These boxes are quite heavily constructed for the type of synchro rings used and 2nd has a hard job spinning the box up by friction alone.

 

If you give it some help by double-declutching you will save a lot of wear.

 

This would be common knowledge when these cars were new. My Dad, a WW2 driving instructor, trained me as a learner to drive this way.

[Alec Pringle]

Hi Rich,

 

if you're not accustomed to double declutching I can soon enough teach you ! Mere isn't far from Salisbury.

 

First step, drain 'box when it's good and hot, to let as much cr*p out as possible, and inspect for solids as noted previously. If no excess of metal, refill with cheap'n'cheerful 20W/50 engine oil, test drive and see if there's any significant improvement . . . . if there is, a sporting chance, then get some Penrite 40 gear oil from Moss and use it to replace the 20W/50. That should then last a few thousand miles. Cheap answer if you're lucky.

 

SU tuning, see Sigma at Gillingham.

 

Drop me a PM if you need local moral support.

 

Cheers

 

Alec

[tr6wilts]

Alec Thanks, Will PM you...

 

Richard

[HarveyCoppock]

Recon Box I bought had a layshaft with no case hardening. It didn't last.... After that I robbed a good one from a saloon box - and its Overdrive. Some jiggery pokery involved with the output flange and speedo drive tho with that.... Beware some very slight dimensional differences between some parts, think this one is just with saloon boxes but tried to swap an input shaft/bearing/gear assembly and it 'looked' the same but certainly wasn't.

 

If you get the box out at least you can make a good job of the clutch release shaft/forks and know that it won't let you down, and know how much life left on your clutch.

 

I remember a funny gearbox fault I had once, got hassled and stressed at some traffic lights, so tried to set off a bit faster than normal with a rapid gearchange, and something went wrong but I 'lost' 2nd gear. B****r. But it gradually came back... I think I just got the detent mechanism all confused, and it probably is a bit worn.

[tr6wilts]

Hi, changed the oil, no major bits of metal in oil, still crunching in second only, but fine with double declutch, so in the short term, will make do.

 

But medium term, will get fixed, how difficult (how much time) for a novice to remove box, to ship to a rebuilder..

 

and is it drop it out from underneath?

 

Rich

[Peter Cobbold]

Hi, changed the oil, no major bits of metal in oil, still crunching in second only, but fine with double declutch, so in the short term, will make do.

 

But medium term, will get fixed, how difficult (how much time) for a novice to remove box, to ship to a rebuilder..

 

and is it drop it out from underneath?

 

Rich

It comes out upwards. Chassis jacked up at front, support under engine. Trolley jack under 'box to slide it back, then up and out. N/s seat removed, also H-frame and 'box cover.

One-man OK. Or it was in my younger days......

Peter

[Alec Pringle]

Hi Rich,

 

see PM

 

Cheers

 

Alec

[Davidw]

Getting it out is the easy part! Getting in back in again.............

[RobinTR6]

its doable with one but its a lot easier with two of you. Its about half a day out and same back in, no question its easier to get it back in with the engine out but unless theres a real problem leave engine in. I use a tow rope over the rear of the box to hold it and jiggle it about with the helper at the front end lining up etc.Its a fiddle but as long as you have the requisite jacks then very doable for an inexperienced amateur (dot ask how I know)

[PaulAA]

On a similar theme, I have an increasingly vocal fourth gear in my non-overdrive '6. Oil was changed at the beginning of the summer, but reverse is very much hit-and-miss. The rest of the box gives (touch wood!) largely trouble-free operation.

 

I've been thinking, in any case, about sourcing an overdrive unit and, having read AlanT's comment, I wondered whether the reconned 'box + overdrive being advertised on ebay here would therefore NOT be a good proposition?

 

Paul

[Alec Pringle]

Hi Paul,,

 

please see PM

 

Cheers

 

Alec

[AlanT]

OD boxes are heavier.

 

Can do one man but you need room the get the doors well open.

You want both seats out.

 

There is a tricky little wiggle required to get the clutch lever past the floor panel.

 

If you do work with someone else you need a high degree of mutual communication or they will just get in the way.

 

I use a trolley which makes replacement much simpler because it sets it at exactly the right height.

[Cew]

Getting it out is the easy part! Getting in back in again.............

I found that by using the clutch alignment tool specific to the TR and a light coating of grease on the primary shaft the 'box goes in quite easily(maybe I was lucky!).I also had the whole car raised about 2 feet off of the ground which made for less bending and easier to just slide under when necessary.