RogerH Posted December 5, 2013 Report Share Posted December 5, 2013 Hi Folks, I hope this doesn't turn into a saga like the car rebuild but I am rebuilding a friends 4A engine, Some things in the build are fairly obvious, like a crank regrind. No need to measure the journals as #3 big-end shell slipped and siezed. The head needs refurbing so I'm going for the lead free seats. The flywheel has a slight wear depression where the friction plate frictions, so I'll get that skimmed. I need to make decisions about the piston/liners. The TRshop do a 'county' set for about £260, Moss do a set for £370 - is it worth the extra!! The Moss main bearings are either £40 for brand X or £90 for Glacier. Again is the extra spent worthwhile. Big end shells at Moss are £37 - brand X, £44 - brand XX or £50 for Glacier I think I know the answer (I like Fo'x mints) The camshaft and followers look perfect so that is going back in. The timing chain looks in good order - stays fairly straight when held sideways. The tips of the sprocket teeth feel quite sharp and spikey - should it be changed? The tensioner has some wear so I'll change that. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pfenlon Posted December 5, 2013 Report Share Posted December 5, 2013 Nothing whatever wrong with County I am reliantly informed, see PM. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Chris Hubball Posted December 5, 2013 Report Share Posted December 5, 2013 Hi Roger I have no experience of the supply of pistons and liners but with regards to bearings go for Glacier every time despite the cost. Glacier used to supply bearings to me when I worked at SU and their quality was first class. I visited their works in Kilmarnock and their quality control systems could not be faulted. Where are Moss and Brand X made ? probably in someone's garden shed in Bongo Bongo Land. Cheers Chris. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted December 5, 2013 Author Report Share Posted December 5, 2013 Bongo Bongo land are you a UKIP member. Yes I'm leaning towards the Glacier mints. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
graeme Posted December 5, 2013 Report Share Posted December 5, 2013 (edited) Roger, I would guess that TR shop and Moss piston/liner sets are the same. County bearings are made by King in Israel, go for the TRi-metal bearings (uprated). BTW, Glacier have a factory in China, not sure if this means "Bongo Bongo Land"! Cheers Graeme Edited December 5, 2013 by graeme Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MichaelH Posted December 12, 2013 Report Share Posted December 12, 2013 County sets are fine, only go for the v expensive stuff (piston/liners/bearings) if the engine is going to race. Change the timing chain and tensioner anyway Michael Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted December 13, 2013 Author Report Share Posted December 13, 2013 (edited) Hi Michael, I think that is the way I'm going. Took the head to Classic&Modern in Brachnell for them to refurb - so the ball is definately rolling now. When it gets back I'll give them the rotating bits for grinding & balancing while I sort the block and insert the liners. Roger Edited December 13, 2013 by RogerH Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tr4Tony Posted December 14, 2013 Report Share Posted December 14, 2013 Biz Roger I'd suggest that expensive bearing are worthwhile whatever you are doing - extends the life of the engine by a large mileage. Regards Tony Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted December 14, 2013 Author Report Share Posted December 14, 2013 Hi Tony, I agree with your point. But still not sure which way to go. Plenty of time to decide though. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ChrisR-4A Posted December 14, 2013 Report Share Posted December 14, 2013 Moss/County liners/piztons are fine for std eng, Re timing chain, if the sprocket teeth are badly hooked then a new chain will wear very quickly so worth changing sprockets as well. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted December 14, 2013 Author Report Share Posted December 14, 2013 Hi Chris, the sprocket teeth are not hooked but the peaks are quite well pointed/sharp so a new one will be had. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ashley James Posted December 14, 2013 Report Share Posted December 14, 2013 Where is Bongo Bongo Land, sounds like somewhere Berlusconi might go on holiday. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted December 14, 2013 Author Report Share Posted December 14, 2013 Somewhere just the otherside of UKIPia. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ashley James Posted December 14, 2013 Report Share Posted December 14, 2013 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dave Ashworth Posted December 15, 2013 Report Share Posted December 15, 2013 Hi Roger, Keep it coming as I have a TR4 engine to rebuild shortly and this column could become my workshop manual in how to do it and where to get the bits. Good Luck and I'm looking forward to following this tread. All the best. Dave. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted December 16, 2013 Author Report Share Posted December 16, 2013 Hi Dave, yes I will. The head went away last week for a full refurb. When it comes back the crank and attaching parts will go away for grinding/refacing/balancing. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shuggie159 Posted December 17, 2013 Report Share Posted December 17, 2013 Roger. I too am very interested in this thread, in particular the costs. My old lump is warn but soldiering on, and I'm sure would keep going many years, but I would love to give it a new beating heart. Have you a budget, or any idea at least of the bottom line? I know this is a "how long is a length of string" question, but there is surely a percieved wisdom of sensible up grades whilst retaining a perfectly adequate S/S exhaust and stock carbs. Obviously if I were to "go for it" this year, now is the time to start. The other issue, which is a bit more problematic, is the prospect of many hours in an unheated garage, that's the real fly in the ointment. I don't live that far from Sutton Rebore. or indeed prohibitively far from you.... Hugh Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted December 17, 2013 Author Report Share Posted December 17, 2013 Hi Hugh, budgetwise the cost could be in the region of £1000 - £1500 for a standard road engine. Head refurb + lead free conversion £350 Crank regrind £100 Crank Balance £150 bearings £120 Liners/pistons £300 if you need a new camshaft and followers - £300 seals/ gaskets £150 it all depends on what needs doing and the quality level of the components. If you outsource the build then you go up a level - £3000 upwards. I'll keep a tally of the costs /components and list them when available. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shuggie159 Posted December 17, 2013 Report Share Posted December 17, 2013 Thanks Roger. That's pretty much as I had envisaged... but I had oil seal conversion, timing belt and tensioner, new oil pump on my list as well. Additionally I thought modern starter motor and narrow belt conversion would get included. That's another good £500 I know. (The sound of the original starter motor engaging is a bit of a damp squib when there're people standing around the car watching....) I'm pleasently supprised by your estimated cost for head work. Do you have any opinion on whether going to stage II is warrented, bearing in mind I'd want to retain the stock exhaust. I don't know what's involved... Is this an exchange head or some bod with a port grinder? (takes me back to days playing with minis in the 70's). I don't know why this question is relevent at all. I'm not sure if my driving style could even detect an additional 10% power, let alone appreciate it.... it's just note the point, is it? Most modern cars have a better power to weight ratio. Frankly I've out grown Boy Racer. I think possibly I've answered this question. Sorry. Yet another question... cam shaft journals. Are these typically an item that wear more than the crank? There are implications in this question.... Is it likely I'm goimg to have to lug the block backwords and forwards to the engine shop, reaming etc. All this assumes that the original components are sound. A single little crack... add half as much again it I guess. Oh yeh! Add a garage heater on to that little list too. So much to do, so little time. Thank you Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rob Salisbury Posted December 17, 2013 Report Share Posted December 17, 2013 Roger, you're letting the cat out of the bag, wives sometimes read the these pages, ...... that's at least twice what my last full rebuild cost!! Cheers Rob Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted December 17, 2013 Author Report Share Posted December 17, 2013 (edited) Hi Hugh, the question is getting bigger - but that is what happens in a rebuild Thanks Roger. That's pretty much as I had envisaged... but I had oil seal conversion £40 to machine the scroll + £120 for the seal, Chris (AKA MadMarx) does a rear seal where the scroll is left as original. timing belt and tensioner, new oil pump(£100) on my list as well. Additionally I thought modern starter motor(£180) and narrow belt conversion (£150) would get included. That's another good £500 I know. (The sound of the original starter motor engaging is a bit of a damp squib when there're people standing around the car watching....)Many TR drivers like the old Lucas sound. I'm pleasently supprised by your estimated cost for head work. (Classic & Modern in Bracknell) Do you have any opinion on whether going to stage II is warrented, bearing in mind I'd want to retain the stock exhaust. I don't know what's involved... Is this an exchange head or some bod with a port grinder? (takes me back to days playing with minis in the 70's). I don't know why this question is relevent at all. I'm not sure if my driving style could even detect an additional 10% power, let alone appreciate it.... it's just note the point, is it? Most modern cars have a better power to weight ratio. Frankly I've out grown Boy Racer. I think possibly I've answered this question.(tuning the engine is really a package of items - Head, air in take, timing and exhaust. The easiest one to do that gives a good feel to the engine is the exhaust. No real power gain but perhaps a slight;y better response by aiding the breathing.) Sorry. Yet another question... cam shaft journals. Are these typically an item that wear more than the crank? There are implications in this question.... Is it likely I'm goimg to have to lug the block backwords and forwards to the engine shop, reaming etc.(the 4 pot engine has ready to fit bearings - no reaming. But they don;t wear under normal conditions. If you want them changed then this is fairly easy if you have a puller of some sort. alignment is important. I would leave them alone. All this assumes that the original components are sound. A single little crack... add half as much again it I guess. The #4 big-end journal/web radius is the weak spot. This must be crack checked. If cracked you are buggered Second hand cranks are getting thin on the ground; new crank £2000. Oh yeh! Add a garage heater on to that little list too. (Just set light to a bundle of fivers, keep adding more through the day - it works out cheaper So much to do, so little time. Keep your fingers crossed regarding the crank. Only do the things that will improve or make the engine reliable. Check the oil pump before buying new. Rear oil seal may improve the leak rate but then the chassis will go rusty. Engine tuning - why? Your rocker shaft will almost certainly be worn (£30) What are the carbs like (£350 for rebuild). Make a detailed list of all the bits that could be done; a list of things the need to be done. Most things can be sorted after the engine build - exhaust, thin belt, starter motor etc The bloody list keeps growing. Roger Edited December 17, 2013 by RogerH Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted December 17, 2013 Author Report Share Posted December 17, 2013 Hi Rob, ah, the 60's when a pound was worth 70p Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
glasgow4a Posted December 17, 2013 Report Share Posted December 17, 2013 Shuggie, heaters available now from Lidl propane gas type or fan heater both very reasonably priced, very necessary here in Glasgow at the moment, cheers Ian Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shuggie159 Posted December 17, 2013 Report Share Posted December 17, 2013 If I was feeling a bit low... SAD syndome, or MOG (misserable old git) or whatever. You guys know how just the right buttons to press to drive an otherwise sane, 'one foot in the grave' type of person, to the very edge of abject insanity. On that note I'll start ordering the necessary bits! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rob Salisbury Posted December 17, 2013 Report Share Posted December 17, 2013 Hi Rob, ah, the 60's when a pound was worth 70p Roger and 240 pennies to the pound, feet and inches, a loaf of bread for 6d, TR's first new clutch(Triumph main dealer price) for around £6 (a weeks wages!!), all sizes of Vandervell VP2 bearings off the shelf, Castrol 'R', then The Who sang "I can see for miles" and everything went a bit hazy and continues to this day, still living the dream!! Rob Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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