MJaggard Posted March 3, 2005 Report Share Posted March 3, 2005 Recently sourced a roll bar that mounts on the differential cover. These looked like they should be easy to fit only requiring elementary welding (something even I could do. However, I noticed that my fitting of inertia seat belts means that the reel sits on the wheel arch right over the area of the diff box where the roll bar wants to sit. Has anyone else noticed this problem in the past. Is there a way round it? I can't believe every TR6 with a roll bar won't have inertia seat belts. One modern safety feature being sacrificed for another... Matt Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Red 6 Posted March 3, 2005 Report Share Posted March 3, 2005 Matt, The roll bar should not be welded to the diff cover (by this i think you mean the panel that we somtimes refer to as the parcel shelf!). A roll over bar should be bolted through the chassis, if yours does not do this treat it as a cosmetic fixture or throw it away. The ones i have fitted in the past locate on the rear shelf and bolt through the holes that locate the body to the chassis at that point, (visible when the carpet is lifted clear) and the foreward mounting point is to the chassis mounting at the base of the B post. This type are ok but i will be fitting a roll bar with a side impact bar on both sides which further locates at the chassis point of the A post. My pal Tony has this bar fitted to his rally car. The side impact bar is not intrusive when climbing in or out so should work well in my road car. On the subject of inertia reel belts and rollover bars there should be no problem fitting or using them with said bar. If there is the bar is probably the wrong design for the car. As a final thought a lot of re imports from the USA had roll over bars fitted which bolted through the rear shelf but not onto the chassis, i took 2 to my local tip if yours is the same do not be afraid to do the same :: TR4 Tony will know which bars work best. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MJaggard Posted March 3, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2005 Thanks that helps a lot. I definitely agree that bolting to the bodywork alone is a big no no. I am still wondering though how any roll bar using the mounted to the axle crossmember (i.e. sitting on the front of the rear shelf) won't get in the way of the interia reel for the seatbelt (located in the same place)? Is there a novel way of fitting the inertia reel I am unaware of (see photo for how mine are fitted). Thanks Matt Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Red 6 Posted March 3, 2005 Report Share Posted March 3, 2005 Matt, i see the problem, the inertia reel is mounted in the wrong place. Mount it at the base of the arch just above the floor behind the seat. Poor explanation, i will try to find a picture to show you. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bob Posted March 3, 2005 Report Share Posted March 3, 2005 Matt, I've posted on this same problem before, without really getting to the bottom of it. Red 6 is obviously right about what it bolts to, but the bar (Aero bar?) is supplied with eight 1" bolts and nyloc nuts. The problem with the inertia reel at the bottom of the arch reduces the travel of my seats, and I need the leg room. Also, if you lift the carpet on the rear shelf, you'll find that the rear mounting for the roll bar sits on a "bulge in the panel, so doesn't sit square anyway. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jimmac Posted March 4, 2005 Report Share Posted March 4, 2005 I acquired an Aero Bar and have stared at it when positioned in the car. I can't quite see the logic of how it is to be mounted and (as has been said before) figured out a good location for the inertia reel. I would have thought that the inertia reel could mount on the bar but I assume this is not the intention of the manufacturers of the Aero Bar. Has anyone fitted one of these successfully? And do the inertia reels still retract OK. I read previously that if the inertia reel is mounted at the bottom front of the wheel arch that they don't retract properly. Jim Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Victor1155 Posted March 4, 2005 Report Share Posted March 4, 2005 Hi I have just completed the fitting of and Alley Bar Roll over bar to my 6, also fitted with inertia reel belts, these belts were fitted in the same place as Matt's and therefore had to be moved. The only way that I could reposition the belts so that they would retract properly was to fabricate a bracket so that the inertia reel would fit in between the two uprights of the roll over bar. I appreciate that there will be a sharp intake of breath at this statement but the bracket, 3mm steel plate and 50x50 angle, is a far stronger location method than where the ******* put the reel initially, ie bolted through the wheel arch without any reinforcing at all. The belts in their present position work perfectly and are securely mounted, if you have access to some engineering facilities have a go and make some. Victor1155 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jean Posted March 4, 2005 Report Share Posted March 4, 2005 Red 6, the chassis of a TR is as week as the body, it's made of rather thin steel. If you wish the protection you are speeking about, you will first have to reinforce the chassis members before you bolt on the roll-over bar, and you will also have to fit a full cage :: The bars we, simple tourists, use are only for extra protection should the car end up inverted when hit by another car We do not speek about 150MPH crashes and then only a full cage will give some protection should any forward movement take place while upside down. Instead of dumping your roll-over bars on the tip you could have offered them for free to the Bring and Buy at the International, probably someone could have made better use of them because they also give some additional rigidity to the cars and they are always better than nothing. A simple bolted on hardtop protected me during a turn-over, without it I, probably, would not have been able to write this lines Jean Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Red 6 Posted March 5, 2005 Report Share Posted March 5, 2005 I cant find the right picture at the moment to show where to mount the inertia reel but it sits on the wheel arch well above floor level so that you do not lose seat adjustment. When fitting securon provide a set of hefty washer to strengthen the wheel arch, previously i have welded these washers to the arch but when i spoke to securon they said welding was not essential (you pays your money etc etc). Jean, i would not like to have any crash in a TR, although i have bounced head on off the tyre wall at Mallory during the club track day. I did take the bar to stonleigh and the international and tried to give it away but no takers hence the trip to the dump, with regard to the chassis being as weak as the body i have not seen any evidence to support that statement but i do agree that strengthening the chassis is desireable,all the cars i have restored have had the chassis strengthened, when our cars were designed i doubt whether any thought was given to fitting aftermarket roll bars or any roll bar to in fact, I had a 6 race car with a full cage and that was designed on to the chassis before the body was re constructed. The cills were reinforced as well to provide additional side intrusion protection, normal cills will fold like paper in a side impact. Fine in principal then but it was a nuisance if all you want to do is go for a ride to the seaside on a sunny day!!!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jean Posted March 5, 2005 Report Share Posted March 5, 2005 Red 6, I fully agree with you but there are not many people on this forum racing their Tr's and I personally would not deter anyone from adding any safety device should they wish to do so. The chassis of a TR looks more sturdy as it is, the frame boxes might be strong, but the sheet metal is rather thin, so we should not over-rate it, but history proved that a TR can take some battle damage before killing it's occupants Jean Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jonlar Posted March 5, 2005 Report Share Posted March 5, 2005 Hi Jean, Does a Factory metal hard-top fit over a roll-bar? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Les Pettitt Posted March 5, 2005 Report Share Posted March 5, 2005 Hi Jonlar I have an Aleybar "TR6 national wide" part number TT7250. The soft top fits over it ok but I'm afraid I can't fit my hard top. Great shame. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jonlar Posted March 6, 2005 Report Share Posted March 6, 2005 Thanks Les, how much does it foul by? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest harry dent Posted March 6, 2005 Report Share Posted March 6, 2005 I have posted on this forum before about roll over bars so just to remind you of what I have done here goes.After consultations with the TR Rallye big boys and Safety Devices I fitted a Roll bar to their recomendations.As I was constructing a new inner tub and had not got to the painting stage it was fairly easy to start the work.After placing in the roll cage and marking it out where the support plates should go I removed the cage.I then welded the plates to the inside of the tub on top of the wheel arches and then down on the vertical face only slightly above the rear floor pan.This complied with FIA rules(which as I am only using for track days and road use I wanted safety paramount).I then made up stainless plates which are fitted roadside.The roll cage is then bolted through using the body as a sandwhich.Safety Devices advice was you did not have to fit the plates on the outside as the inner welded ones do the job but I felt better fitting them.I have full wrap around harness made by Schroth of Germany also supplied by Safety Devices.All I need to do now is change my beautiful TR5 leather seats for Ridgard black leather with white piping seats and headrest,s.I must admit I did not realise as Jean had stated that the chassis is indeed a thin guage.I never thought about it.The down side is poor rear vision as the roll bar is in line with rear view mirror. I know this does not help with the siting of your seat belts and I would seek professional help. Regards Harry TR5 nutter. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Les Pettitt Posted March 6, 2005 Report Share Posted March 6, 2005 Hi Jonlar Not the easiest thing to measure but here goes. The top of the roll bar is 28.5 inches above the rear seat carpet. It might be more useful to say the top of the roll bar is 13.25 inches above the highest part of the rear deck forward section. Looking at my hard top I think the inside measurement is about 12 inches where it would meet the roll bar. Therefore there is approx 1.25 inches too little clearance. I don't think removing the headlining in the hard top would give enough clearance but if you or anyone else has a similar roll bar and has tried it, I would love to know. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jonlar Posted March 6, 2005 Report Share Posted March 6, 2005 Thanks very much Les, I'm in the fortunate position of having acquired 2x Factory hard tops (plan was to have 1x Black and the other Pimento - body colour as per original, allegedly!), but we do want to fit roll bar. I was thinking of going for the flattened oval type, but as Harry mentions using sandwich to the chassis - as Roger Williams recommends in his book. With your info., it may be a case of getting one made up, a bit shorter in the verticals. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest harry dent Posted March 7, 2005 Report Share Posted March 7, 2005 Hi Jonlar, I can email you some photo's of my installation if you like.I would definately speak to Safety Devices as they have done this many times before and they make them here. Harry. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lee Posted March 7, 2005 Report Share Posted March 7, 2005 Jonlar I guess it depends on what type of roll bar you're looking to fit. I like you seem to be collecting factory hard tops...not sure why....I have a roll bar fitted together with a hard top and there seems to be ample clearance. The earlier post on this would suggest the soft top has allows more headroom than the Hard top? lee Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jonlar Posted March 7, 2005 Report Share Posted March 7, 2005 What make of roll bar do you have fitted Lee? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jean Posted March 8, 2005 Report Share Posted March 8, 2005 Jon, my 6 has an Aleybar model D aerodynamic that fits between the wheel arches. I have no problems at all with the hardtop. Sideways the hardtop allows for more clearance than the softtop only the top is a little lower, but there is still more than 2 inches clearance. Jean Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lee Posted March 8, 2005 Report Share Posted March 8, 2005 Jonlar I'm not sure which type I've got. It fits between the arches on the rear seat area and the rear bars come up to meet the hoop section about 4 or 5 inched in from the outer edge. Is that as clear as mud or what? lee Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jonlar Posted March 8, 2005 Report Share Posted March 8, 2005 Thanks Harry, Jean and Lee, I'll have to measure up with hard-top in place and see which way to go. If I hadn't got the hard-tops, I'd be keen to go the Surrey route, but would like to see some pics on a 6! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lee Posted March 8, 2005 Report Share Posted March 8, 2005 It transpires that my bar is an alleybar but which model I don.t know except that I have just seen the same one for sale on Ebay under Triumph tr6. lee Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jonlar Posted March 8, 2005 Report Share Posted March 8, 2005 Thanks for that Lee. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MARK Posted March 13, 2005 Report Share Posted March 13, 2005 I also have the same problem having purchased an Aero type padded roll bar and want to find the right position for the seat belt reels. I have been putting the job off for quite sometime now. I am concerned about the remarks that the roll bar must be mounted to the chassis as the roll bar was supplied with plates and bolts. The roll bar seems to mount directly to the panel with the reinforcing plates and with the second mounting point vertically to the side of the wheel arch, again with a reinforcing plate behind. Has anyone got this sorted out ? A couple of pictures would be very helpful ! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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