Cellulose, two pack, or what?.

[YOW500]

With a body off restoration to clean metal, what, in the opinion of the membership is the best paint finish. Thank you.

[stuart]

Cellulose.

Stuart.

[amclpreston]

Cellulose.

Stuart.

 

Why ?

[RogerH]

Why not.

 

Roger

[Guest ntc]

I am with Stuart,2 pack never again it just don't look right and not easy to repair

[Ian Vincent]

But only use cellulose for the top coat, use a 2 pack primer.

 

Rgds Ian

[terry]

ill go for cellulose too

 

easier to repair

 

terry

[RogerH]

2K paint has a deep shine but is easily chipped due to its hardness. Touching up can be interesting.

 

Cellulose has a quality shine but needs regular attention. However remedial action is that much easier.

 

Roger

[stuart]

But only use cellulose for the top coat, use a 2 pack primer.

 

Rgds Ian

Correct as it doesnt suffer the sinkage problems of Celly primer. However you do need special equipment to spray 2k primer so not really practical for the home restorer.

Stuart.

Edited September 13, 2013 by stuart

[BrianC]

What type of paint is in the standard rattle cans from Halfords and general motor factors?

[RogerH]

Hi Brian,

I believe it is an acrylic based paint. Not celly or 2K.

 

Roger

[BrianC]

That's what I thought Roger but was too idle to go look at a can to satisfy my curiosity.

[RogerH]

Idle is OK. It requires thought.

 

Roger

[PeteT]

Hi Brian, another thing to consider with two pack is the 'flaring' that occurs in strong sunlight. Take a look at the two pictures of my 54 long door. One is in normal daylight the other in bright sunshine. Looks totally different and drives me nuts!

 

Regards, Pete

[jothecat]

Cellulose was outlawed by the Environmental Protection Act, it is only available in very rare circumstances for professional use only via licensed body shops. Same for standard 2k top coats. When I worked for a paint factor cellulose, single pack acrylic, coach finish, normal solids polyurethane and normal solids 2k were all phased out by legislation.

Solid colour in the aftermarket is high solid 2pack, but most solid colours are now water based base coat with an EHS 2k clear lacquer.

Metallics are also water based base coat with an EHS 2k clear lacquer.

 

Cellulose sinks, shrinks, and cracks. 2k acrylic is more flexible. Unfortunately not many old colours are available in water based paint.

It may seem perverse to put water on cars, but it works.

 

Ideally, 2pack etch primer, followed by an hs 2k primer, then water based colour base coat, then an EHS 2k lacquer, but it might look too new and shiny.

 

Jo

[stuart]

The legislation got watered down eventually and you can buy cellulose fairly easily again now though only some places still have their schemes so they cant mix to match. You can also buy medium solids 2k as well due to the lack of formulations for water based colours before 1999. In fact all of the old types of paint are still available if you know where to look They are expensive though.

Cellulose if applied correctly over 2k primer will last well and look much more "correct" than 2 pack, it also has much more depth of shine as well.

Stuart.

[Ashley James]

Two pack is far more durable and polishes up at least as well as cellulose, a lot better in my experience.

 

[Guest ntc]

2 pack ? it is cheaper and saves labour time,but not correct for a classic car

[Nick Webster]

Last time I sprayed cellulose - which is a while ago now - I used a sealer coat first to avoid the dreaded wrinkle finish because it wasn't bare metal and I was not too sure what was on it already. It was a bit of a pain to do, so I'm interested to learn that the suggested 2k primer is not affected by cellulose?

 

Nick

Edited September 14, 2013 by Nick Webster

[Dave Ashworth]

Hi Everyone,

 

Stuart paints classic cars every day of the week, so to speak, and has been doing for years, so I would certainly listed to his advice carefully.

 

It is also very interesting to hear of other people's experiences, and also learn what not to do and why. Therefore, it would also be very helpful to hear about the nature of experience that precedes a comment about paint, to help us make value judgements, before we make the wrong choices and have to take all the pain off again.

 

I've never painted anything, other than with Halford type cans, but this is something I would love to have a go at, and old fashioned cellulose has been around a long time, you I guess it can be quite forgiving if you get it wrong and have to paint it again.

 

Thanks everyone for your input in this very interesting thread.

 

Nice car Ashley. Did you paint it yourself?

 

All the best,

 

Dave.

Edited September 15, 2013 by Dave Ashworth

[Guest ntc]

Stuart knows far more than I,but I will have a go as he said 2 pack you MUST have the right gear,as a primer this will save you many hours of prep but will not hide everything,let it dry and celly will not shrink or crack ,if you use celly on unknown surface you must use barcoat and not sand through it.

[stuart]

2pack primer goes off by chemical reaction between the primer and the hardner so once it is dry then there will be no reaction to cellulose sprayed over it.

FWIW When I started painting back in the early seventies all there was at that time was celly and synthetic and it used to be a nightmare everytime you sprayed anything worrying about if it would react to whatever was already on the car. (Virtually no bare metalling done then as resprays were usually done to tidy a car up for sale ) If it had already been painted with synthetic then the only way round it was to either spray again with synthetic (Actually a very similar material and finish as modern 2pack apart from the fact it would take several days to dry!) or use a barcoat like Neil has pointed out and then spray cellulose over that but gawd help you if you ever rubbed through it when flatting for painting as that bit would react like a damn

My personal preference is 2pack paint underneath the car and cellulose on the top.Then its a more in keeping finish and easy to repair.(Especially if you want to do any repairs yourself as opposed to large expense at a body shop.) Modern polishes will also keep it looking good for many years.

Stuart.

 

PS The only drawback if you arent doing the paintwork yourself may be finding a painter thats old enough to know how to paint cellulose

[Dave Ashworth]

Thanks Stuart,

 

Great wisdom of the ages.

 

Dave.

[Ashley James]

Hi Everyone,

 

Stuart paints classic cars every day of the week, so to speak, and has been doing for years, so I would certainly listed to his advice carefully.

 

It is also very interesting to hear of other people's experiences, and also learn what not to do and why. Therefore, it would also be very helpful to hear about the nature of experience that precedes a comment about paint, to help us make value judgements, before we make the wrong choices and have to take all the pain off again.

 

I've never painted anything, other than with Halford type cans, but this is something I would love to have a go at, and old fashioned cellulose has been around a long time, you I guess it can be quite forgiving if you get it wrong and have to paint it again.

 

Thanks everyone for your input in this very interesting thread.

 

Nice car Ashley. Did you paint it yourself?

 

All the best,

 

Dave.

No I didn't Dave, it's probably a million quid's worth of R Type Continental by Franay, it's absolutely perfect in every respect having just had a few dents removed after an Alpine Rally recreation. It's two pack and painted by a chap whose cars have appeared in most of the major concours events around the world including Pebble Beach.

 

In my opinion it's impossible to tell the difference between cellulose and two pack, but the latter is far more durable. Stuart is right that it's more difficult to blow in. Most do the patch in colour and then clear lacquer the panel and polish, or up to creases or natural boundaries to hide the join.

 

Another concours friend who's just restoring an Austin 12 Clifton to be the best in the world (seriously) has used cellulose because Herbert Austin did, but it wasn't easy and he had to have special paint made to get the best possible finish. Apparently ordinary cellulose isn't as good as it used to be and doesn't give the finish. Stuart will know about that.

 

[Tom Boyd]

2 pack everything apart from the colour coats and that is water base. You can get a match for any colour in it.

 

Leaves a fantastic long lasting shine