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Cheese and Whine and a Pump


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It's not what you think it is sadly.

 

Been doing a lot of summer evening driving recently. Fantastic stuff. But I have noticed that after about 45-60 minutes, the fuel pump (mine is a Bosch) starts to whine and it gets gradually louder until it is very noticable. I spoke with Stuart offline who suggested it was the fuel filters and the pump may need to be replaced (because unlike the original Lucas one I have in a box somewhere it cannot be serviced) - but the PO never had any problems.

 

My question is: if it is the pump - why does it run smoothly for 45 minutes and only then start making noises? Any thoughts appreciated.

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1st question I would ask is, where is the pump situated.......inside the spare wheel well or outside on the chassis.

I had all manner of problems with mine, cutting out completely, running on 5, pump screeching like a castrated cat, you name it, mine did it!

Happy to share views & tales if you like?

 

Nick.

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You will be suprised on how much rubbish a pre filter collects, if you have one fitted. I usually clean mine out 2 a year. If I dont the bosch pump sounds like yours. I may need a new tank soon.

Steve

Edited by whatmore179
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If it's not the pump, then it could be resonance from the pump hose to the PRV?

 

See: http://www.tr-register.co.uk/forums/index.php?/topic/28977-damn-the-vu-vu-zela-is-back/?hl=resonance to cure it I fitted a Diaphragm PRV from Prestige, although Revingtons also sell them now.

 

525903_3339908211720_715856164_n.jpg

 

535725_3432846255113_208925924_n.jpg

 

Cheers

Andrew

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Change back to a Lucas Pump? Mine gives no trouble at all...well, since fitting the so called 'Touring Kit' back in the mid 1970's! ;)

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I concur with Andrew. They need to be below the tank. Also, it sounds to me as though there is an obstruction in the pipe or the bottom of the tank. In my case I had the small collar off a bottle of Valvemaster which would get sucked into the outlet on a trip until it blocked the pipe. It would then float off temporarily curing the problem.

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If it's not the pump, then it could be resonance from the pump hose to the PRV?

 

See: http://www.tr-register.co.uk/forums/index.php?/topic/28977-damn-the-vu-vu-zela-is-back/?hl=resonance to cure it I fitted a Diaphragm PRV from Prestige, although Revingtons also sell them now.

 

525903_3339908211720_715856164_n.jpg

 

535725_3432846255113_208925924_n.jpg

 

Cheers

Andrew

 

Just a comment on the Revington PRV. This spring I fitted a tap after the tank, a prefilter, moved the Bosch pump to the lowest point, fitted a reinforced hose after the main filter (just like this installation, but also a electric pressure transmitter which shows that the pressure after the PRV is "rock solid". I can trim it exactly to the psi. I've not experienced any problems at all this summer (but a not enough tightened jubilee clamp).

http://www.ijonsson.se/triumph/photo_diary.php?day=motor&folder=motor&id=IMG_0641 With the "transparent" pre filter housing it's fascinating to see how big the flow really is.

Edited by ijonsson
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1,Filters could be clogged up on inlet side, causing pump to work too hard to get fuel into it,

2,fuel in tank could be low, resulting in pump heating fuel to evaporation point. causing cavitation in pump

3,wire to pump feed,and earth,no big enuff, leading to loss of supply power, also heating pump up

4,wrong pump fitted, working over its design running limit, thus causing heating of pump / fuel

5,wrong inlet pipe size fitted, causing cavitation going into pump, thus also causing pump to get hot

 

6,Fit 2 bigg filters before and after the pump, and for goog measure, one near MU, fitted upside down

so fuel enters top, and leaves the bottom. this will eliminate all air from fuel lines.

 

But just started dooing it, then change the inlet filter to one much much bigger.

Note, most inlet filters have a too small a inlet / out let on them, that meks the pump work to hard.

for running a bosche pump at its limit, which it will most certainly be.

whats the pump code.!!!

 

Markus

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The fitting of a metal internal filter element to the pre-pump filter, as replacement for the standard paper element, can reduce the load on the pump, and in conjunction with a tap to shut off the tank supply the element can be quickly and easily cleaned on a regular basis. All available from Glencoe - http://www.glencoeltd.co.uk/

 

The small Bosch post-pump filter supplied with the conversion kits was often as not 0450905005, and it's NLA and expensive if you can find one.

 

A larger filter is 0450905021, and this or its equivalent fitted lots of applications, see http://www.autopartoo.com/search/directsearch.html?kw=0450905021SJD# and http://www.autopartoo.com/oem/alco-filter/sp2002.html#carser .

 

An equivalent currently on ebay - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/290694710349?ru=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fsch%2Fi.html%3F_from%3DR40%26_sacat%3D0%26_nkw%3D290694710349%26_rdc%3D1 at a tenner.

 

From personal experience, I can confirm that the smaller filter rapidly strangles the Bosch pump in a K-Jetronic Audi 80/90 Quattro installation, therefore it seems logical to me to employ the larger filter in a similar power TR6 PI.

 

Cheers

 

Alec

Edited by Alec Pringle
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While at Malvern this year Bill (Badshead) and I were talking to Malcom (Prestige). I was asking him why, considering I have his full set up including PRV, my pump also squalls away a lot. Especially when warmer. (Note: mine is installed exactly like Andrew's). His answer was to back off the fuel pressure to 100 psi as that is the optimum for this Bosch pump set up on a TR6. Last time I had it checked I think it was nearer 110psi (which I had thought was correct). I haven't had a chance to adjust this yet (not having a ready fuel pressure gauge) but clearly this would relieve an awful lot of work from the pump so seems worth a go.
Q

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Quentin,when I purchased my uprated Prv from Prestige I also had the Squealing Cat Syndrome I tested the Presure and it was 104,was told it needed to be 108 by Malcom,he then said return it and he would replace which he did with one that was set at 108.

Also if you purchase these from another source they need setting as I've heard a figure of 65 mentioned as set by the manufacturer.

 

Maybe another contender for Neil's Upgraded Rubbish Thread.

Edited by TR NIALL
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Haven't a clue what mine is set at (100 psi seems to ring a bell though) but that and a PTFE lined braided hose has stopped the Vu-Vu Zela and I haven't heard it since fitting it about two years ago - hope that hasn't put the mockers on it!

 

So, we need to keep it off Neil thread and out of Room 101.................

 

Cheers

Andrew

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Stripped out the boot on Saturday morning. See photo.

 

I can confirm the pump is located below the tank. A small amount of residue was apparent below the pump. It looked like an "unusual" set up and I didn't have enough time to start taking it apart so could not check filters, etc. I think the residue explains why the boot has a petrolly smell.

 

I cleaned it out and then started the pump and then the engine, but could not see any leaks. Not enough time to do more...

 

Told you it would not be shiny Andrew!

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Mine did this, I tried everything to get rid of the noise: new pump, new PRV hose and PRV unit. It turned out the inlet pipe between the filter and the pump was collapsing when hot. Strange but true, I did not have the rigid system with banjo bolts that Andrew is showing on his photos as mine was an older conversion. Looking at the photos that is a useful upgrade, another job to do over the winter

 

All that for a £2.00 length of pipe, at least I have a spare pump and PRV to send to Neil when I need another!

 

Peter

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Stripped out the boot on Saturday morning. See photo.

 

I can confirm the pump is located below the tank. A small amount of residue was apparent below the pump. It looked like an "unusual" set up and I didn't have enough time to start taking it apart so could not check filters, etc. I think the residue explains why the boot has a petrolly smell.

 

I cleaned it out and then started the pump and then the engine, but could not see any leaks. Not enough time to do more...

 

Told you it would not be shiny Andrew!

 

True, but that doesn't matter................

 

There doesn't seem to be any room for a pre-filter is there one?

 

Cheers

Andrew

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The Bosch pumps for sure do not draw fuel, but be aware that Bosch advises that, for long life and proper functioning, the tank outlet should be at least of the same size as the pump inlet.

 

Standard, unmodified TR6 tanks are not suited to feed some of the Bosch pumps as they are designed to deliver a rather larger quantity of fuel more than they get supplied by the tank outlet.

No wonder that a thin supply hose will collapse

 

My TR6 never had a prefilter, just a microfilter after the pump, but a clean tank is paramount in this case.

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Quentin,when I purchased my uprated Prv from Prestige I also had the Squealing Cat Syndrome I tested the Presure and it was 104,was told it needed to be 108 by Malcom,he then said return it and he would replace which he did with one that was set at 108.

Also if you purchase these from another source they need setting as I've heard a figure of 65 mentioned as set by the manufacturer.

 

Maybe another contender for Neil's Upgraded Rubbish Thread.

 

Well now I am just confused, because he was quite clear about the 100psi. I pressed him on it as I had always understood it should be nearer 110. Whatever, it's a noisy thing and I will try it.

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Well now I am just confused, because he was quite clear about the 100psi. I pressed him on it as I had always understood it should be nearer 110. Whatever, it's a noisy thing and I will try it.

Thats cos the Pump is Not designed to run constantly at 110, its way over its rated rating.

plus small inlet pipe, No Bigg pre filter, like BIGGG, and im not talking inline filter either, cos they just got a small 8 MM / 5/16 th hole.

im talking 1/2 inch minimum inlets to filter, and this is the Bore size, NOT the fitting.

no wonder there so much trouble.

 

Markus

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The noise is not exclusive to Bosch pumps - it can occur with Lucas ones too.

Look on the fuel system as a musical instrument like a trombone.

The pump and prv are all capable of setting up a resonant frequency and the pipework alters the tuned length. The wrong combination and it will play a tune or at least a note in the audible frequency. So altering things like the PRV pressure can change the note, as can changing the length of the flexi pipe. As the pump warms up it's own noise will change which may well make things make a note.

 

If the pre filter is restricted the pump may well struggle and put more noise into the system.

 

If your PRV is set too high the pump may well make a lot of noises - I had a PRV stuck at 150 psi and it used to sound like a motorbike revving through the gears! (Only happened when I put a Bosch pump on - the Lucas pump couldn't generate anything like that and thus the PRV had not really been doing much until the Bosch was fitted)

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