PHP727 "factory hard top "complete with Le Mans style identification lights"?

[Don H.]

Any idea what they're referring to in the Premium Classic Cars listing for TR2 PHP727 when they state "factory hard top complete with Le Mans style identification lights"?

http://www.premiumclassiccars.com/carlistings/1954-tr2/

 

 

 

 

That's a new one for me.

Edited July 5, 2013 by Don H.

[Ashley James]

Lovely thing, it'll probably go overseas. Do they mean the spotlights?

 

 

Ash

[D1070]

the id lights were those fixed next to the entry number on the car. Gave pit crews the chance to see the number of the car at night ,

cheers,

Laurence

[Don H.]

the id lights were those fixed next to the entry number on the car. Gave pit crews the chance to see the number of the car at night ,

cheers,

Laurence

But those lights were on the front wing, not the hard top. Maybe the listing doesn't intend to refer to the hard top -- OK -- but there aren't number/roundel illumination or the different colored car ID lights anywhere on the vehicle pictured.

[Alec Pringle]

Hi Don,

 

the hard top has a roof mounted spot lamp, a regular fitment on 1950s rally cars.

 

Le Mans 24 Hour race competitors often sported some form of distinctive additional lighting to aid identification from the pits at night, a couple of coloured sidelights roof or grille mounted for example, along with a distinguishing feature such as contrasting grille mouth or nose paint colour, and the door or wing mounted downwards pointing light to illuminate the race number for the benefit of timekeepers.

 

Methinks the vendor is confused . . . .

 

Cheers

 

Alec

[Guest]

 

 

Le Mans 24 Hour race competitors often sported some form of distinctive additional lighting to aid identification from the pits at night, a couple of coloured sidelights roof or grille mounted for example, along with a distinguishing feature such as contrasting grille mouth or nose paint colour, and the door or wing mounted downwards pointing light to illuminate the race number for the benefit of timekeepers.

And even today, we can see these details pointed out by Alec.

 

About the car: at first sight a wonderful looking TR, but for that price, I think a few essentials are missing: the correct glovebox lid, the correct air cleaners etc. And, this is the second TR we've seen here with an asking price higher than 40K.

 

Menno

[Don H.]

Ah, thanks Alec -- I think your eyes are better than mine. It indeed looks like a Lucas RMS700 or RMS576 spotlight on the hard top roof. It was lost in the shrubbery.

 

That would be a most unusal Le Mans accessory, eh? The seller must be confused.

 

The roundel side illumination, the beehive-style colored ID, and the colored nose paint are the lighting/identification details typical of the Le Mans cars, AFAIK. Interesting that sixty years on, LMP1/2 cars are using modern equivalents of exactly the same things.

Edited July 5, 2013 by Don H.

[Don H.]

...a few essentials are missing: the correct glovebox lid, the correct air cleaners etc. And, this is the second TR we've seen here with an asking price higher than 40K£...

They look like the wrong seats, too, Menno. Much later than TR2.

[Rodbr]

edited out

Edited July 7, 2013 by Rodbr

[Kiwifrog]

Ok being picky

 

Wrong dizzy cap, holes for mounting overiders awol (filled in ?) missing glovebox lid wrong gearlever knob, chrome wing beadings, front wing beadings too long ? wrong air filters, handle on bootlid (accesory ?) which should only have the dzus fastners and 3A seats the pleats in a 2 go the other way.

 

On the plus side the bonnet, boot and door gaps look very good and its eligable for mille mille, Classic spa and CLM

 

Cheers

 

ALan

[Don H.]

And while we're piling on (which doesn't seem unfair for a price that asks ALL the money), it also has the wrong valve cover, the speedometer/rev counter are mounted in the reverse positions, and the transmission tunnel cover doesn't show the access points for dipstick and driveshaft lubrication.

Edited July 5, 2013 by Don H.

[hpremote]

Plus it has the wrong inlet manifold, I think - and certainly the rear tank-cover trim would have been vinyl-covered board. And - help! - no rad stays!

Bill Piggott might well have some detail history on all this, adding to the blurb provided by the advertiser. I note that the blurb confuses matters by stating that it is a 1954 car (which rings truer with me).

It's quite possible that a 'Press car' would have been kept on by the factory as a development mule, which might account for some latter-day inconsistencies which the vehicle now sports; but even then, not many, I reckon (eg. as we know, the first steel beading appeared in Sept '55, with the intro of the '3').

I don't mind it not having rear overriders (my car doesn't have them either - or the holes!) as well as yet other 'inappropriate' stuff; but it would be decent of the seller to acknowledge that, or explain why there are post hoc anomalies in what is (at least on top) still a v. bonny car.

Tim.

[Tom Boyd]

It is the ex press car that's for sure

 

Top money for a top car!

 

We should embrace the prices of TR's going up in my opinion

 

Tom

[Ashley James]

It is the ex press car that's for sure

Top money for a top car!

We should embrace the prices of TR's going up in my opinion

Tom

I am! I spent a b------y fortune getting mine right!

[Rodbr]

edited out

Edited July 7, 2013 by Rodbr

[BlueTR3A-5EKT]

Smart and pretty car.

 

So where is the heater connected then? - Full Options?

 

Looks like a 4A lump in an early TR. with 3A seats.

 

This could trigger an Alec rant about Walter Mitty specials.

 

Open your wallet and repeat after me....

'Help yourself'

This assumes you wish to go historic racing with an eligible car. Cheap way in for those with that desire to.

 

 

 

This car comes with Heritage certificate , clearly confirming its Provenance as a Car Built in 1954 and delivered directly to the Press office of the Standard Triumph Motor Company in Canley Coventry. Overdrive & Heater both being specified period options along with Wire Wheels as ordered, so as to Publicize the TR2 with full ” Options ”

Edited July 5, 2013 by BlueTR3A-5EKT

[Willie Felger]

These guys are having a laugh ....... Very shiny but not quite what they claim to be. The white '56 TR3 shown next to the longdoor 2 has a more correct interior but has an early TR2 bonnet with internal catches and the wipers are parked the wrong way. Note also the nasty aftermarket battery clamp on the 2.

 

Anyone want my TR3A? It is really original, just like the Viking war axe with only 1 new head and 2 new handles!

 

Caveat Emptor, Carpe Diem and keep TRucking!

 

Regards,

 

Willie

[Alec Pringle]

Now now PeeWee,

 

Rant ? Moi, petit moi ? Rant ?

 

Attractive enough looking reconstruction. If the photos are anything to go by, a not insignificant input of effort, money and time still required to attend to a variety of fine details . . . . if, that is, the future owner wishes to achieve a higher degree of authenticity.

 

As such, as it stands it's an attractive long door bitsa, so what's it worth then as a private sale ? Mid-20s, tops ?

 

So at mid-40s that's a £20K dealer premium for the ' ex-factory press car ' tag.

 

I have to say, at that sort of premium I'd personally want chapter and verse documentation of its history and provenance, and some reasonable detailing of just what is and what isn't original.

 

Just my opinion of course, maybe I'm being old-fashioned . . . . bullshit baffles brains.

 

Incidentally, earlier this evening a fellow enthusiast was suggesting to me that one could not expect more than a modest degree of original content to remain in a car of this age. Perhaps 25-35% at best, quoth he. Try inspecting Paul Harvey's 1962 Italia as a contrast then, or my Super Snipe, or my wife's Pennant, both 1958 vintage . . . none of which have had more than consumables replaced and a minor scrape blown-in.

 

There are kosher cars out there, in between the barmitzvah pork chops.

 

Cheers

 

Alec

[brydon]

Hi

 

Googling the registration number found a previous advert that may explain some of the observations noted above:

 

 

http://www.nickwhalesportscarsdirect.co.uk/1955-triumph-tr2-php-727.

 

Isn't Google wonderful.

 

Happy motoring

 

Andrew

[Alec Pringle]

Thank you Andrew,

 

something of a contrast between the two descriptions . . . . .

 

Somehow I prefer the flavour of Nick Whale's comments, more in line with my own attitude of trying to tell it like it really is.

 

 

As you were saying Tom,

 

"It is the ex press car that's for sure

Top money for a top car!

We should embrace the prices of TR's going up in my opinion :)"

 

 

All that glisters is not gold . . . . . caveat emptor.

 

Cheers

 

Alec

[Rodbr]

edited out

Edited July 7, 2013 by Rodbr

[Rodbr]

edited out

Edited July 7, 2013 by Rodbr

[Alec Pringle]

Hi Rod,

 

value ? Two pints of lager and a packet of crisps and I'll take it off your hands . . . . .

 

Sadly, I know of relatively few "important" TRs that are in fact genuinely kosher, rather more that lie somewhere between the nine bob noter and the seven and a tanner variety, and then a few more that are 100% pukka halal pork sausages.

 

As long as fools and their money are soon parted, there will always be a market for haraam delicacies.

 

Cheers

 

Alec

[Kiwifrog]

Alec

 

I happen to have some 9 Bob notes and a few 7 euro notes hidden behind my skirting board ladder attached to a skyhook.

 

Would you consider a trade of 68 euros in 7 euro notes for your packet of crisps as they now have provenance and I see them as a good investment opportunity to go with my limited edition chocolate teapot and my very rare ex works Triumph TR3C driven by Bob Monkhouse in the British Forumula one race at Hockenhiem in 1923. I have all the paperwork to prove it as soon as the ink dries in the mail from nigeria

 

Kind Regards

 

Alan

[Alec Pringle]

Alan,

 

Nigeria is usually considered to justify a capital N . . . .

 

68 is an unlucky number, or so it is considered by the Mumbo Jumbo tribe of the Upper Classika Bullocka region.

 

Anyway these crisps are the real deal, they have salt in blue paper within . . . .

 

Make it 69, and follow the traditions of the MJ people by always sending cash with the wife . . .

 

Cheers

 

Alec