First run of the season - some glitches / puzzles

[Menno van Rij]

Finally, finally! Sun and high temps at last! Sure, last weekend was great, but I had to store my car elswhere over the weekend because my driveway had to be repaved. That job's done and now it was time to get the TR out of the barn.

 

Not without a few glitches! First, after checking all vitals, I took the car down the road for a fresh MoT. No problem off course. When I returned from my 3 mile trip, I noticed that bowl of the front carb leaked. The large nut under the carb had loosened itself and petrol was seeping out. I retightened the nut, but I'm a little worried about the fact that I had never noticed it before and I'm puzzled how I can prevent it again.

 

Second problem: In October, I stored my car with a nearly empty fuel tank (alloy tank, no worries about rust etc), so my first trip with the fresh MoT and the retightened nut, was to the fuel station for a fresh dose of Shell V-power. The car runs great with the fresh fuel. But it often sounds 'lumpy' at tickover (900 rpm), despite a 123ignition - in fact, 123 didn't improve it. I replaced the spark plugs, checked all high and low tension wiring and finally looked at the ignition (static timing) I've advanced it a little. Things look to be better, but I'm not convinced when I hear the car next to another TR. A new coil perhaps?

 

Finally: as said I layed the car up for the winter with a nearly empty tank. I'm sure that the dial on the dash was correct when I parked the car. Today, the needle told me(...) that the tank was completely filled - even with only 3 ltrs in the tank. Not good.

 

Now, three giltches. I'm always interested to read your answers / ideas. If you happen to have one, please share it with me (and others off course).

 

Oh and did I tell you that I enjoyed every minute behind the wheel of the TR?

 

Menno

[Ashley James]

If the camshaft is standard, more likely the tickover is carb related.

 

1. Make sure the choke comes off properly by measuring how far below the jet bridge the jets are. Both should be 38 thou (1 mm to foreigners) and check that they return to this if you pull out and push in choke.

 

2. If you have original carbs, check the height of the fork that presses on the floats by inverting the lid and measuring 7/16" between the highest point and the ridge on the face of the lid. Before you do this take out the needles and blow through to remove any dirt or anything that might make them flood.

 

3. While the dashpots are off to check jet height, screw out tickover screws until butterflies bite on 1.5 thou feeler. Make sure both feel the same and reassemble.

 

It should be perfect now.

 

However if Mr Cox sold you a camshaft, tick over will be lumpy and the car will be heading for 6000 and a bust crank in the time it takes Lord Rennard to get into young activists undergarments.

[sidescreen]

Menno,

 

What kind of plug leads you're using, carbon ?

What kind of coil, sports coil?

 

Regards - Raymond

[Guest]

Thanks Ashley and Raymond.

 

I'll start tinkering with the carbs tomorrow - check the data you mentioned.

 

I'm using the leads provided by Hebels ( you know them Raymond) and yes, I have a sports coil. But it's an older one and I (vaguely) remember a story of bad items a few years back.

 

Menno

[angelfj]

Finally, finally! Sun and high temps at last! Sure, last weekend was great, but I had to store my car elswhere over the weekend because my driveway had to be repaved. That job's done and now it was time to get the TR out of the barn.

 

Not without a few glitches! First, after checking all vitals, I took the car down the road for a fresh MoT. No problem off course. When I returned from my 3 mile trip, I noticed that bowl of the front carb leaked. The large nut under the carb had loosened itself and petrol was seeping out. I retightened the nut, but I'm a little worried about the fact that I had never noticed it before and I'm puzzled how I can prevent it again.

 

Second problem: In October, I stored my car with a nearly empty fuel tank (alloy tank, no worries about rust etc), so my first trip with the fresh MoT and the retightened nut, was to the fuel station for a fresh dose of Shell V-power. The car runs great with the fresh fuel. But it often sounds 'lumpy' at tickover (900 rpm), despite a 123ignition - in fact, 123 didn't improve it. I replaced the spark plugs, checked all high and low tension wiring and finally looked at the ignition (static timing) I've advanced it a little. Things look to be better, but I'm not convinced when I hear the car next to another TR. A new coil perhaps?

 

Finally: as said I layed the car up for the winter with a nearly empty tank. I'm sure that the dial on the dash was correct when I parked the car. Today, the needle told me(...) that the tank was completely filled - even with only 3 ltrs in the tank. Not good.

 

Now, three giltches. I'm always interested to read your answers / ideas. If you happen to have one, please share it with me (and others off course).

 

Oh and did I tell you that I enjoyed every minute behind the wheel of the TR?

 

Menno

Menno, This is my opinion but not to say that there might be other issues to sort. Let's focus on the third paragraph which describes how your car was stored with an almost empty tank. Storing a car with empty fuel tank in never a good idea. Unless you replace the air in the tank, above the fuel with dry nitrogen that is! The moisture in the air will condense on the walls of the tank once the temp gets below the dew point. Of course the more empty the tank, the more water can condense. Trying to run fuel with water mixed can provide a false indication of ignition and/or carb trouble. So, next "end of season", fill up the tank at your favorite station and add a little fuel stabilizer and marvelous mystery oil and dream of spring.

 

p.s. Take a look at the clear glass sediment bowl, integral with the mechanical fuel pump. Quite often you can see a layer of water at the bottom of this bowl. Just loosen the nut and dispose of the fuel/water.

[Don Elliott]

For 23 years, I have kept a minimum quantity to fuel in my tank during winter storage. That's from October to May. My tank is the original tank but I had it "slushed" with an epoxy liquid in 1991 and it has never developed rust during storage. Also, I store the TR3A in my garage where the air during our Canadian winters is dryer that the Sahara, once the air gets warmed up inside. The temperature in my garage is about 15 deg. C which lets me work on it any time I want. I would guess that the RH in my garage is about 5% all winter. Under these conditions, my experience tells me that I have no condensation in the fuel when it come time to start the TR. I started it this week and it idles smoothly at 400 RPM after adding 8 litres of fresh 89 octane to the 3 or 4 litres which were in the tank over the winter.

 

My control box is 54 years old. I thought of buying a solid-state device "JUST IN CASE", but the original one has never let me down.

[sidescreen]

Menno, This is my opinion but not to say that there might be other issues to sort. Let's focus on the third paragraph which describes how your car was stored with an almost empty tank. Storing a car with empty fuel tank in never a good idea. Unless you replace the air in the tank, above the fuel with dry nitrogen that is! The moisture in the air will condense on the walls of the tank once the temp gets below the dew point. Of course the more empty the tank, the more water can condense. Trying to run fuel with water mixed can provide a false indication of ignition and/or carb trouble. So, next "end of season", fill up the tank at your favorite station and add a little fuel stabilizer and marvelous mystery oil and dream of spring.

 

p.s. Take a look at the clear glass sediment bowl, integral with the mechanical fuel pump. Quite often you can see a layer of water at the bottom of this bowl. Just loosen the nut and dispose of the fuel/water.

Menno,

 

Unless Frank's advice to store the TR with a tank fully filled up, I always stored her away with an empty tank with very satisfying results. The modern fuels (ethanol absorbs water) are in Europe no longer preservable then about two months ...

Water in an empty tank is no issue as far as you're using a dehumidifier, damp is always finding it's way to the coldest surface which is in this case the dehumidifier.

 

Before starting her up, after the wintersleep, replace the old petrol of your float chambers and clean/empty your petrol pump bowl and eventually clean your petrol line. Put in your new petrol and build up oil pressure, without spark plugs, put the plugs in again and she will start immediatley and will run nice and smooth for the next season...

 

Regards - Raymond

Edited April 25, 2013 by sidescreen

[Graham Harris]

Menno, The fuel gauge reading full when you know the tank is close to emty could be no earth at the gauge. If the needle goes straight up to full when you turn on the ignition i think you will find it's an earth problem.

Graham

[vivdownunder]

Menno, after you tightened the large nut under the front carby, did you check if the needle was still centred in the jet ?. If the jet has gone off centre, it will jamb the needle and cause tuning problems. The dashpot should drop down freely with a metallic clunk.

 

I've dispensed with sports coils as all they seem to do is prematurely burn out ignition components, but perhaps that doesn't apply to 123 distributors. Having found a fuel related problem that could influence engine tune, I would fix that before chasing a potential ignition problem.

 

There could be a number of reasons for the fuel gauge misreading. Sometimes it's just a sticking arm on the sender which often corrects itself after a few fills. Or its an earthing problem which might also correct itself. Might be a faulty sender float which needs repair or replacement. Generally problems tend to be at the sender end rather than with the gauge. Anyhow the well proven alternative TR fuel gauge comprising a 700mm length of timber dowel should help while it's sorted out.

 

Regards,

 

Viv.

[angelfj]

Don, Raymond, Viv, et al: I truly respect your collective advice/recommendations, BUT putting a car up for the winter with and empty fuel tank seems to be contrary to just about every enthusiast website/magazine, e.g. Car & Driver, Road & Track, Hot Rod, etc.

 

Why do you suppose this is so?

[vivdownunder]

Hi Frank,

 

For that very reason I purposely didn't comment on ways of laying up a car over winter and just looked at Menno's post start-up niggles.

 

In the old leaded fuel days we drained the tank and ran the car until the carbies emptied. That was to avoid sticky gum residues after the fuel evaporated away. Nowadays there's an argument that with cleaner fuels, it's better to leave fuel in the car so the various seals don't dry out. Adding a fuel conditioning additive before lay-up can be of benefit, but that's not a universally accepted fix. Sometimes fuel is blamed when low battery charge is the culprit. Often the problem results from individual cause and effect.

 

For instance with the non E blend 95 premium unleaded I use, I've left classic cars in storage for over a year with half a tank or so, and after charging the battery, they've fired up right away. Such experience might not repeat with E blends, but luckily we can avoid them.

 

Regards,

 

Viv.

[Alec Pringle]

No point in storing cars with modern fuel in them - if the magazines suggest otherwise, they sure are not speaking from experience of UK fuel.

 

But then the average classic and collector journalist confirms the concept of well-meaning idiot on a regular basis.

 

When we started up the Audi 80q on 12 year old fuel recently, you could have knocked me down with the proverbial. They don't make fuel like that any more. They don't make Audi engines like that any more, come to that ! 5-bangers didn't get any better than the KK lump.

 

Neither the 4 nor the 8 cylinder TRs will start up on 3 month old fuel, they just pop and fart and spit until they get some fresh go-juice. Even then they are less than entirely happy - compression ratios well on the high side of 10:1, and UK road fuel,is cr*p wherever you buy it.

 

Cheers

 

Alec

[Guest]

To add some info on the 'tank full or empty' discussion: I took my lawnmower (Briggs and Stratton) out of the barn. I stored the mower with a full tank. At first, I couldn't remember why I did this, but now I remember. My mower runs on a fuel brand called Aspen. (Here's the UK site: http://www.aspenfuel.co.uk/products/environmental-fuels/aspen-alkylate-petrol/ ). That stuff is specially formulated - it will not brake down over time. And indeed, one pull on the cord and my mower runs like clockwork. (There's also an 'Aspen +' formula for cars - 98 ROn and an 'Aspen R' for race engines - 101 RON). Extremely expensive for daily use, but perhaps an idea to use it for storing your car during the winter.

 

Menno

Edited April 26, 2013 by Menno van Rij 2

[sidescreen]

Hi Frank & All others,

 

My petrol winter storage method is just based on pure experience with petrol of now addays. My 3A will NOT start with "wintered" petrol. Perhaps our mutual petrols are differently composed ...? (These problems did not occur before modern petrol was introduced).

Despite each and every ones good and well respected advice: new petrol asks for new insights...

 

But nevertheless, we must continue such interesting discussions!

 

Regards - Raymond

[angelfj]

Hi Frank & All others,

 

My petrol winter storage method is just based on pure experience with petrol of now addays. My 3A will NOT start with "wintered" petrol. Perhaps our mutual petrols are differently composed ...? (These problems did not occur before modern petrol was introduced).

Despite each and every ones good and well respected advice: new petrol asks for new insights...

 

But nevertheless, we must continue such interesting discussions!

 

Regards - Raymond

Raymond - always the diplomat/gentleman. Thanks

No doubt though that fuel formulations over here are quite different - even from state to state!

 

Cheers, Frank

[Ashley James]

In the winter my cars sit in the garage for long periods unused, but of the roads are clear I might get one out, otherwise it's wait till the weather improves. When I do drive them after a long break and without special precautions, they sometimes hesitate and misfire, which is almost always cured by filling the tank.

 

Other times a carb floods of something and then I tap it, clean it or ignore it if it recovers.

 

Works for me!

[Paul Harvey]

clearly the best idea is to run the car all year round!