Dynamo ----> Alternator?

[Prambert]

Hi Fellahs

 

I have decided it's time to generate a bit more power. My 4A can run with headlamps, fan and radio without draining the battery (just).... but not if I hit a bit of rain, the wipers are the straw that breaks the camels back, the ammeter drops into the negative and stays there.

 

So, only one thing for it - let's go for the Alternator!

 

• But which one?
• What about my 'Aldon Ignitor' electronic ignition - will it be affected?
• Will it affect my timing?
• Will ammeter cope with it?

 

All views and tips welcome!

 

Many thanks in advance.

 

Phil

 

 

[ianc]

See my 1993 article in Section J4 of the Technicalities CD, and the more recent article by Jim Christie and myself in TR Action 248 (March 2011).

 

Well worthwhile change, especially if combined with conversion to narrow fan belt.

 

Electronic ignition should be fit and forget, as the only wear is in the spindle and the advance mechanisms (centrifugal & vacuum) of the distributor. The problems of wear on the heel of the points and the erosion of the contacts themselves, become a thing of the past. My electronic ignition has been running, with an alternator, for 20 years now - no problems whatsoever!

 

Ian Cornish

[RogerH]

Hi Phil,

alternators work well and remove the problem of the control box.

Are you already on Negative earth - the 4' and I think early 4A's were positive earth.

Have you got the narrow fan belt mod already installed. If not the new alternator would apopreciate it.

 

Any alternator will do - Lucas, Bosch, Delco Remy - all work well.

Get one that is 45amps or more.

There are small ones that are expensive and ones that look like dynamo's and are more expensive.

 

If the Aldon is neg earth then it should be OK

 

Shouldn't affect your timing.

 

The standard ammeter is 30-0-30. Many poeple think that a 45amp alt will put 45amps through the ammeter - not so.

It can certainly stick 25+amps through for a few seconds on initial start up with a poorly battery - this should do no harm.

Only the charging current should go through the ammeter, so all the other services will not cause a problem.

 

You will need to terminate the wires that are no longer connected to the control box - I think IanC has the definitive answer on this.

 

Remember to get an alternator that fits the correct way round - I think it is refered to as lefthanded.

 

Roger

Edited April 2, 2013 by RogerH

[John Morrison]

yes go to alternator, absolutely,

but a 30amp one is man enough, and means all original wiring is heavy enough, also narrow belt conversion is good idea, but you can run an alternator with a wide belt and the pulley from the dynamo if cash is tight, and change later.

 

 

 

 

John,

[Fireman049]

Hi Phil ~

 

I converted my 3A to negative earth, fitted an alternator and narrow belt conversion, easy to do and highly recommended!

When it came to modifying the control box, one car electrician quoted me £100!! so I asked one of the TR specialists for

help. If you PM me your email address I'll send you the wiring diagram and some photo's.

 

Regards ~

 

Tom.

[Badfrog]

Check the lightweight NipponDenso 45 Amp. A pleasure with the narrow belt. Won't change anything elsewhere, except removing the control box and re-wiring to alleviate the removal. Re- electronic ignition, it's a personal choice. I hate it.

 

Badfrog

[Rob Salisbury]

At the moment Stealth are offering on Ebay a Dynamator (alternator in a dynamo) Dynalite lookalike for around a third of the Dynalite price, I've got one on order and will let you know how I get on with it.

Cheers Rob

[BlueTR3A-5EKT]

Nippon Denso alternator is a good way to go.

Buy from ebay ( http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_nkw=nippon+denso+alternator+kit+car&_sacat=0&_odkw=electrostart&_osacat=0&_from=R40 ) or (http://www.autoelectricsupplies.co.uk/product_list/140) and expect to have to add wires to your car

or

buy from Racetorations ( http://www.racetorations.co.uk/page16.html) and it is a direct no nonsense fit -instructions -(http://www.racemettleltd.co.uk/fitalt.html) - You pay for what you get. - prices from £110 to £190

 

Small and light. Simple wiring. 45 amps output max

Easy mod to the wiring loom to remove the old control box.

 

Cheaper unit make is Lucas - see Moss or any of the other TR specialist. - GEU2206 at £60.00 http://www.moss-europe.co.uk/Shop/ViewProducts.aspx?PlateIndexID=18703&SortOrder=16

 

I run the one on my TR3 with the original wide drive belt. It involved re machining the old dynamo pulley in the lathe to get sufficient recess depth in the pulley for the attachment nut. It does not use a woodruffe key, just wang it up tight.

 

I fitted a 50-0-50 ammeter from a TR4/4A with alternator - The needle never seems to go more than half way across the dial, so I guess it is not required.

 

My car wiring is now modified with a supplementary big supply wire from the alternator feeding directly to the battery via the starter solenoid battery connection. This is where the power to the relays for cooling fan, headlamps and spots is taken from.

 

Cheers

Peter W

[MikeF]

.......Remember to get an alternator that fits the correct way round - I think it is refered to as lefthanded......

 

Roger

Change the "handedness" of Lucas Alternator by rotating the end brackets, just undo the through bolts holding the thing together, rotate and re-assemble. This will make sense when you have one in front of you.

 

Mike

[billg]

I opted for a cheap small alternator from a helpful Bristol form I found on EBay. Lining ip the narrow pulleys involved a friendly neighbour with a lathe though. I scrapped the ammeter and fitted a voltmeter. Opted not to have a damped crankshaft pulley as no one would sell me one on it's own.

 

All this saves horsepoer and petrol. The car is running very well now and will drive it to Malvern a trip of 800 noes?

 

Bill G

[Badfrog]

To save originality, keep the ammeter in place and hook the voltmeter in the engine bay. You don't need to look at it constantly.

 

Badfrog

[Ade-TR4]

keep the ammeter and wire the alternator output back to the battery side of the solenoid.

Ammeter will show discharge only, but it saves having to upgrade wiring/ gauge or replace with voltmeter

Cheers

Ade

PS: Badfrog's idea of gauge under bonnet is a sneaky alternative!

[stuart]

At the moment Stealth are offering on Ebay a Dynamator (alternator in a dynamo) Dynalite lookalike for around a third of the Dynalite price, I've got one on order and will let you know how I get on with it.

Cheers Rob

If you fit one of those then make sure you fit a heat shield as they cook very easily due to the dynamo lookalike cover. All alternators should be heat shielded anyway as they are much more susceptible to heat than a dynamo.

Stuart.

[BlueTR3A-5EKT]

I opted for a cheap

 

Opted not to have a damped crankshaft pulley as no one would sell me one on it's own.

 

All this saves horsepoer and petrol. The car is running very well now and will drive it to Malvern a trip of 800 noes?

Bill G

Pulley comes from an MGB

 

Cheers

Peter W

[Ade-TR4]

Stuart's point about heat is very true.

I had 2 Lucas alternators which both failed due to heat, despite heat shielding. A reconditioned Bosch version has now done 9 year's service. (although I'd probably fit a Denso one nowadays)

Heat wrap, a heat shield, longer-fan belt all help keep the heat away

Cheers

Ade

 

Just noticed - 1000 posts! Mostly drivel, I know, I know...

Edited April 3, 2013 by Ade-TR4

[stuart]

Pulley comes from an MGB

 

Cheers

Peter W

Be careful when fitting as the sleeve that comes with it is supposed to be an interferance fit on the pulley flange and often arent!

Stuart.

[RogerH]

Hi Ade,

congrats on your first millennium.

 

 

Roger

[Prambert]

Gentlemen

 

As usual - top tips from a knowledgeable bunch. Greatly appreciated.

 

Best get on with it then....

 

Many thanks

 

Phil

[Ade-TR4]

Thanks Roger!

 

It's a great forum - really enthusiastic owners.

 

Cheers

Ade

[Paul Harvey]

My 30-0-30 ammeter reads off the scale most of the time since having a new TR6 18ACR 45 amp alternator fitted, unless I have virtually nothing on (if you know what I mean!)

I recall a previous thread suggesting you could put a simple wire across the ammeter connections and this would bring the readings in range, albeit the wrong readings.

(I want to keep the ammeter for originality)

I also seem to remember an expert telling us what the various readings on engine start up meant about the state of the battery, and I suspect mine is dud, but still hanging on (it struggles to turn the starter motor, even though it's a new starter with the gear reduction thingy.)

I've also noticed there's a slight glow to the ignition warning light most of the time at night, even though the narrow belt is reasonably tight (how tight should it be?)

 

Clearly I've got something wrong - but in what order should I investigate?

[Menno van Rij]

I have a Suzuki Samurai ('Sidekick' in certain countries) alternator under the bonnet of my TR. Basically a 35 Amp Nippon Denso unit. I had to fabricate pivot hinge for it. I ditched the am meter on the dash. First, it's useless and second, there's a lot of current running behind the dash! I replaced it for a period correct voltmeter (Stuart pointed me into that direction).

 

A nice alternative to the Suzuki alternator is one from a Kubota gardening machine (small tractor, shovel etc).

 

Menno

 

 

Edited April 3, 2013 by Menno van Rij

[stuart]

My 30-0-30 ammeter reads off the scale most of the time since having a new TR6 18ACR 45 amp alternator fitted, unless I have virtually nothing on (if you know what I mean!)

I recall a previous thread suggesting you could put a simple wire across the ammeter connections and this would bring the readings in range, albeit the wrong readings.

(I want to keep the ammeter for originality)

I also seem to remember an expert telling us what the various readings on engine start up meant about the state of the battery, and I suspect mine is dud, but still hanging on (it struggles to turn the starter motor, even though it's a new starter with the gear reduction thingy.)

I've also noticed there's a slight glow to the ignition warning light most of the time at night, even though the narrow belt is reasonably tight (how tight should it be?)

 

Clearly I've got something wrong - but in what order should I investigate?

With everything turned off check your battery voltage and also check all your earth straps and the main feed to the starter are clean and tight. The alternator is trying too hard to get power into what sounds to be possibly a battery with a dead cell

Stuart.

[Superaquarama]

When I did the conversion on a 3.4 Jaguar, I just whacked some heavy fusewire across the ammeter terminals to bring it down to sensible levels and prevent it end-stopping. Still shows a healthy reading, I suppose in effect it's converted from a 30 to maybe a 60 amp ammeter. And keeps the battery up much, much better; you can go to the car even after a month and it starts straight up, whereas before it nearly always needed charging or the good old Sealey booster pack if left for more than about 3 weeks.

 

So didn't need any encouragement to fit an alternator to our 4A project last week - got an 18ACR off the shelf at our local agric. engineers, £44. It's simple to rotate the front casing to accommodate right or left hand fitting.

 

But a heat shield ? The only car I've ever seen (or perhaps I should say noticed) one on is an E Type, and that's over the top rather than shielding it from the exhaust - more likely to keep the heat in ! Is there an off the shelf shield that can be used ?

 

By the way, Menno, nice job but isn't your rocker cover on the wrong way round ?

Edited April 3, 2013 by Superaquarama

[stuart]

No its a DIY approach AFIK nobody does an off the shelf one but easy enough to fabricate with a 12"X4" bit of 18SWG aluminium sheet and a couple of steel strips riveted to it for fixings. The proximity on a TR makes it necessary especially with stainless four branch. The shield on an E Type is for heat protection BTW.

Stuart.

Edited April 3, 2013 by stuart

[Menno van Rij]

When I did the conversion on a 3.4 Jaguar, I just whacked some heavy fusewire across the ammeter terminals to bring it down to sensible levels and prevent it end-stopping. Still shows a healthy reading, I suppose in effect it's converted from a 30 to maybe a 60 amp ammeter. And keeps the battery up much, much better; you can go to the car even after a month and it starts straight up, whereas before it nearly always needed charging or the good old Sealey booster pack if left for more than about 3 weeks.

 

So didn't need any encouragement to fit an alternator to our 4A project last week - got an 18ACR off the shelf at our local agric. engineers, £44. It's simple to rotate the front casing to accommodate right or left hand fitting.

 

But a heat shield ? The only car I've ever seen (or perhaps I should say noticed) one on is an E Type, and that's over the top rather than shielding it from the exhaust - more likely to keep the heat in ! Is there an off the shelf shield that can be used ?

 

By the way, Menno, nice job but isn't your rocker cover on the wrong way round ?

Nope. I don't know when Triumph changed the oil filler from the front to the back of the rocker cover. I'm sure someone can pitch in with a proper answer about that.(new topic please, lets keep this on focussed).

 

Now, regarding a heat shield... that's why I opted for a small(er) alternator. I had set my mind on a Kubota style alternator, but I was unable to find one a the time, so I settled for the slightly larger Suzuki (= Nippon Denso as well).

A little search on Google and I found this: http://www.revingtontr.com/shop/product_display.asp?mscssid=CVJWT6ES3WJ89KBXQGCQNPNNKGGWDM18&ProductID=RTR2067

 

Menno