replacement fuel pump?

[Stoker]

Yes

 

I had a similar problem. Turned out to be a washer that had got in to the swirl pot and was intermittently blocking the outlet----- what a nightmare.

 

 

John

[Guest ntc]

Whatever the pump run dry is knacked anyway

[Johncracknell]

Thanks guys

I'll report what I find ........

 

Neill, I'll persevere and sort out the crud and try the pump again, I hope your wrong !

 

 

John

[John Harvey]

Bosch pumps sound like a nightmare I think if my good old Lucas pump packed in I would buy another like Alec Pringle has for sale on E-bay or get my old one recondition

 

 

I have a Lucas fuel pressure test kit you can borrow if you need to test the pressure at the mu and a son who works in Downham Market not to far from you.

 

Anyway John hope you get it sorted soon all this talk of sucking and blowing is not good for your blood pressure.

[Johncracknell]

 

 

 

You're not wrong John !

 

The trouble is, of course, I don't think the model pump I've got is still available, so I would have to re-do all the pipe work, drill more holes to mount the replacements and spend more hard earned. Hence I'm really keen to retain what I've got.

 

This Tr6 ownership is a steep learning curve, and getting to old to be doing the karma sutra in the boot, had a headache for two days on petrol fumes, mind you I've cut down on the fags !

 

John

Bosch pumps sound like a nightmare I think if my good old Lucas pump packed in I would buy another like Alec Pringle has for sale on E-bay or get my old one recondition

 

 

 

I have a Lucas fuel pressure test kit you can borrow if you need to test the pressure at the mu and a son who works in Downham Market not to far from you.

 

Anyway John hope you get it sorted soon all this talk of sucking and blowing is not good for your blood pressure.

[Johncracknell]

Assuming Neills right and I need a new pump ( I should know over the weekend ) what should I go for ???

The moss setup looks neat, but is it good, and would I put the moss prv with it, at least I can then ditch the tractor filter I've got at the moment, which probably got me to this point anyway. If my Bosch pump is f*******ed I won't need to fix it in a position which would make getting the spare wheel in tricky, mind you I'm still hoping the Bosch pump will be ok.

 

The moss picture ...

[Johncracknell]

[stuart]

If your pump is stuffed then I would put the system back to original and fit a recon Lucas pump and there is nothing wrong with the CAV filter set as the thing that may have stuffed your pump is the lack of fuel due to the blockage from the tank.

Stuart.

[John Harvey]

Hear Hear stick with Mr Lucas after all he was called

 

THE KING OF THE ROAD.

[OldBob]

Hear Hear stick with Mr Lucas after all he was called

 

THE KING OF THE ROAD.

 

Also known as: THE PRINCE OF DARKNESS

 

Bob - a Lucas pump man.

[Johncracknell]

Well I took the afternoon off and set about it, all back together except for trim, the pump is ok and the engine runs sweet, still don't know what the real cause of this nightmare was, must have been muck, but anyway better outcome than I expected.

 

Thanks to everyone for their advice, much appreciated and a little further knowledge of the 6 gained, just amazing how long a simple job like changing a filter can take.

 

John

[John Harvey]

Well done John thats good news.

 

All you need now is a bit of sun hood down and away you go.

 

Hoping to get out this weekend myself for the first time this year.

[Tim D.]

Glad your problem is sorted.

I have the same pump set up ad you and like you was thinking of changing the CAV filter. Any tips?

I have also been more aware of the pump noise than I was before as my new gearbox is MUCH quieter. Noise is only really noticable stationary at idle with top down. Not really an issue apart from once in a while when the tone of the pump goes up and down periodically. The car runs fine. Just wondered whether this was an indicator of potential future issues?

Cheers

Tim

[Johncracknell]

Hi Tim

 

The CAV filter is a big lump, although I've had a problem with it, it's staying, at least for the time being.

It's A real simple device and whether its prone to blockages I don't know, but I can't see why it should be, if my pump eventually gets thrown in the nettles I will probably change it for a modern set up freeing up the space under the tank.

 

I noticed that the noise from the pump does vary, is yours on rubber mounts and semi insulated from resonance via the body, they need air round them for cooling but if its an issue insulate the rear bulkhead behind the tank, this might help a bit.

 

Happy TR ing.

 

John

[Tim D.]

Hi John.

Good to know yours oscillates as well. My pump is isolated like yours. Plenty of air as well although seems to stay pretty cool even after a long run. I think the CAV. Setup is inherently good as it has been used on small commercial vehicles for years.

[joinathanbrooks]

On hot days I have had issues with my Lucas based fuel supply. Read many articles and agree sitting on grass verge not such an issue although sitting on the side of the A12 in Essex no fun at all so looking for some ideas. Current setup is:-

1. Refurbished Lucas pump and PRV valve. Pressure checked at metering unit and Aok at 106 psi.

2. Direct positive and negative power feed to pump from battery with fused positive via relay.

3. Heavy duty cabling from battery to pump using 44/0.3 cable.

4. Soldered joints to pump wiring.

5. New braided pipe work to suit unleaded petrol front and back.

6. New filter and pipe work feed from tank.

Car runs absolutely fine and did a trip to SW UK and back with no issues. However, in hotter weather pump overheat and break down. Could only just touch the pump so suspect around 50-55C. Fuel tank felt warm and thought of filling up but dashed home instead. Used to have cooling coil around pump but do not like that idea because it heats the petrol up in the tank.

Does anybody know the origin of the cooling coil e.g. Triumph, Lucas?

I was wondering whether I have damaged the pump; any thoughts?

Thought of replacing Lucas with a Bosch pump although reading articles not fully convinced and more question if going that route.

Since to me this seems purely a pump heat problem was wondering about low powered fan (12V PC fan) to remove heat from the pump. Possibly use some heat sink profile also. Although would need to "lose" the hot air.

Any thoughts?

 

 

 

[Steves_TR6]

This is a thorny subject Jonathan!

i’ve had two tr6s both fitted with bosch 996 pumps, fitted outside the boot in the wheelarch area.

this is where bosch pumps are designed to be fitted, outside the car in cooling air

both cars would run down to empty in all weather without complaint

When it was hot recently i drive down to winchester and back with no issues, including sitting in traffic

so a bosch installed in nice cool air works well

steve

[Rob Salisbury]

Back in the days (mid 70's) when the Police used the big Triumph saloons as squad cars the 2.5Pi cars had a card-ice pac around the pump, that fixed the problem.

A pac of frozen peas works. ........  and for me once, when towing our caravan across Ireland to catch a ferry, we'd have to stop every few miles and chuck a bucket full of cold water over the pump!! ... it was a very hot day.

Cheers Rob

[Waldi]

19 minutes ago, Steves_TR6 said:

 

this is where bosch pumps are designed to be fitted, outside the car in cooling air

both cars would run down to empty in all weather without complaint.

so a bosch installed in nice cool air works well

steve

Hi Steve,

that is a good thought!

If the Bosch pump (which generates more heat compared to the Lucas, but that is not my point), has prooven reliable on many (German and Swedish cars (can someone confirm this?) , why not on a TR5/6?

Are the pumps installed outside, or is there a fuel cooler? 

Jonathan,

1) I have a Bosch pump, but would not swap to that if I were you. The performance curve (flow at rated pressure) of the Lucas pump better matches the requirements of the PI.

2) What make/type of pre-filter do you use?

3) What was the fuel level in your tank when problems started? And what was the ambient temperature?

4) To answer your question re pump damage: Cavitation can damage pumps indeed, but normally not in a very short time. The implosions of vapour bubbles (that’s what cavitation is) can damage internal pump surfaces by fatigue. And a lack of lubrication in severe cases.

Waldi

 

[joinathanbrooks]

The fuel filter I use is a Lucas 7111-296.

Tank level was something between 1/4 to 1/2 full.

Heard the pump changing note although not that much.

[joinathanbrooks]

ambient temperature approx 28C

[Andy Moltu]

On 3/23/2013 at 11:59 AM, Denis said:

The Lucas Pi Pump was the very same pump they used on F1 cars during the Cosworth DFV years!...If it was good enough for F1...it's good enough for your TR !

 

There are pressure problems however related to using the Bosche Pump on the Lucus Pi System!

I think there is a slight misconception about 5he Lucas pump as used in F1.

The pump element may well have been the same but the motor wasn’t.  The wiper motor was utilised to save on costs for Triumph.

The Bosch pumps are up to the job, and the pattern parts are cheap - almost to the point you could look on them as service items. A good Lucas pump is fine but marginal at best. 

[Waldi]

The 7111-296 is what it recommended on this forum, so should be ok, if not too old.

The high ambient temperature can have resulted in boiling fuel if you drove for longer time, there was a recent thread where others measured the fuel temperature at which problems occurred.

Waldi

[Steves_TR6]

I think i’m right in saying the lucas pump was used to START the F1 engine not to run it, a mechanical pump delivered the fuel when running.

the lucas pump clearly is adequate for the 2.5pi motor, if in good condition, as is an appropriate bosch/sytec pump

i do think the ‘bosch pump kit’s offered by the usual suppliers are overpriced, a disposable sytec filter and 996 pump have worked faultlessly for 20k spirited miles on my car, and the previous one!

steve

 

[astontr6]

On 3/23/2013 at 6:11 PM, Andrew Smith said:

Keith,

 

Bosch all day long over the Lucas for reliability!

 

I've had three TR6s, the first two had Lucas pumps and were plagued with overheating in the summer, even after fitting the 'cooling coil' that wraps round the pump which was as useless a chocolate teapot!

 

Both cars got the Bosch 996 pump fitted sharpish and I never looked back.

 

VUX, my current TR6, had the Prestige Injection Bosch conversion some years back by the PO and I have recently fitted a diaphragm PRV to cure resonance, photos below:

 

Edit: rubber hose replaced with a PTFE lined steel braided one as it permeated fuel vapour into the boot!

Hi Andrew,

Using a Prestige PTFE /SS hose I assume, correct me if I am wrong is a recipe for harmonic hammering, this has been known for years. I have steered clear of that type of hose as it is rated at 1000 psi and has no give in it at all and magnifies the pulsing of the Bosh pump. If you had gone for the Gates rubber Barricade Hose it would have saved you the expense of a new PRV. My Bosch replacement pump lasted for 46 years but then started to suffer from pressure drop.

Bruce.

 

 

Cheers

Andrew