Advise on floor and sill replacement

[kiwi-jim]

After a break from working on my TR4 I am now back at it again, bearing in mind I am not a professional restorer just a back yard bodger I am a little confused on the best order of installation from here.

The tr4 is completely stripped, chassis is separated and stripped as well, the tub is lying upside down. I have completely removed the floor and inner and outer sills on the left side. Right hand side is still in place!

, doing one side at a time so I will do that next. Before removing the floor and sills I braced the tub forward to back and side to side and between the a and B pillars. I have rust at the base of the B pillar to repair and the base of the tub firewall/foot rest area where it will be welded to the new floor .

Currently though I am just thinking about the process going forward, once I have sorted out the new metal going at the base of the b pillar etc, what is the order to set up the floor and sills.

 

I assume the inner sill is tacked in place first, then I place the floor pan on the chassis and set the tub back on the chassis to line up all the floor etc and the inner sill. Tack this in place . Then hang the the door and guards on while I place the outer sill in its place and tack. Then once all is in place I can look to fully weld it all together.

 

Is this the logical / correct order of reassembly

 

As it all sits currently with the inverted tub and just placing all the bits in situ without attempting to hang a door or guard it seems to be lining up and slotting together a lot easier than I expected. So I assume I am missing something.

 

Any advise appreciated

Cheers Jim

Edited February 24, 2013 by kiwi-jim

[tr4u2]

Jim

 

like you not a pro but having done this if you want my advice put the body back on the chassis and set it up best you can re door gaps etc

 

my tub was much worse than i thought so ended up getting another rear from B post back.

 

so i had the front section A post forward and the back half bolted down. i even put the empty door shells back on to see i had got the gaps/height about right.

 

then bolt the floors down and work out from there,as you say tack and try!!! before welding

 

have you got a spot welder or are you going to plug weld ? get all the prep done first, go to a good motor factors and get a spray can of weld through primer this will give all those cleaned off edges some protection

 

 

best of luck regards Adrian

[AlanT]

I did mine more or less the way you suggested.

But I found later I had created a lot of extra work.

 

If I were doing this again I would:

 

1. put the floors on the chassis and leave 'em loose

2. put the front on the chassis

3. hang the doors on it

4. fit the wings on it, leave em loose

5. put the back on the chassis

6. fit the wings on, leave em loose

7. fit the screen frame and backlight

8. line up the door gaps by moving the back around

9. ensure the glass runs up correctly to the screen and backlight

10. if using a hardtop get it it fit

11. weld the floors and sills

 

I'd do it this way even if I had to take the tub off again to finish the welding.

Its really hard to get the doors and glass to line up if you can't move the back about because you welded the floors first.

 

You can use 1/8in rod to leave jig pins so that it all fits back the same after you have painted it.

 

I don't have much room so I used a method that suited this. Even when upside down I had to keep the tub on the chassis.

Life a breeze if you have a barn to work in.

 

Al.

[kiwi-jim]

Hi Alan , you obviously split the tub completely removing both floors together I had thought I should do one side at a time, probably the original post wasn't that clear so I have edited it. Space to work in is not a problem for me but I guess the answer is one side at a time or split the tub. I will be interested to hear the consensus.

Cheers jim

[AlanT]

Well I didn't have much choice because it had more or less split itself. There were really almost no floors left.

 

You could weld the pans to the back half because its not hard the weld them to the front with it all "up the right way"

I did this and it would have worked out fine.

 

BUT

 

I mounted the rear on the chassis and bolted down the pans. This left me having to set the door gaps by moving the whole front with the doors attached to get the fit. This is HARD. Don't do this!

 

There is quite a problem putting the sills in place without the doors to check the fit.

Many Forumites are moaning that the seals are too tight and the doors don't shut without banging them.

 

Remember that the new pans and sills will most likely be "pattern parts" not original.

 

If you weld this up, turn it over and fit it and then find the doors don't work you will do a lot of unnecessary work.

 

As you have plenty of room and if you have a few friends for the lifting, I'd tack it all up with it the right way up.

Then turn it over and finish it off.

 

The door fit is what marks out a really good restoration. Everyone looks at this.

 

Al.

[stuart]

I have done it both ways.

1 Body cut in half and the remnants of the floors and inner and outer sills removed from each section being careful to trim the sills away from the bottoms of the "A" & "B" post at the original joint lines and remove the bits underneath them,the bottoms of front toe boards repaired and the lips reinstated, bottoms of the rear parcel shelf repaired until you have a front and rear section compete and ready to fit. Chassis levelled and the inner sills fitted to the floors.(The heritage inners are good and its obvious where they fit) sit the new floor mounting brackets on 1 rubber/1 steel/1 rubber pad then the floors can be bolted down to chassis and the front half of the shell sat on the front end of the floors and the front mountings bolted up. Rear section slid into place and bolted down (Both with the appropriate number of shims on the mounts) and then doors fitted with the type of door rubbers you are going to use to enable the gaps to be set by slight adjustment of front and rear sections. They aren't going to be far out provided the mounting brackets front and rear are still intact and the chassis is after all is your jig. Fit outer sills last of all so you can get the door set correct.

 

2 Brace the across the door apertures and across the car from the top of the "B" post down to the top of the rear tunnel both sides. Unpick the three welds each side of the rear tunnel where it meets the floors, cut all the way down the centre line of the inner sill from front to back with either a thin cutting disc or a plasma cutter and at each end cut down to the floor.

Turn the shell over and then unpick the floor from the underside at each side of the rear tunnel section, across the rear parcel shelf bottom sections and around the bottom of the rear arches. Unpick the drop section of the floors from the bottom of the outer sill and across the bottom lip of the front toe boards. You can then remove the floor complete. Only do one floor at a time.This now gives you room to remove the remnants of the inner sill and the sill end caps and do any repairs of toe board edges and then replace that floor and inner sill complete. This can be welded front and back and to the tunnel side. Now do the other side the same and when you have both floors back in place sit the new floor mounting brackets on the chassis with the appropriate shims and turn the shell back up and drop it onto the mounts and bolt down all round. Now you can replace the outer sill (one side at a time)with out anything moving as you have restored most of the strength with the new floors and inner sills. Fit the doors and the type of seals you are going to use so you can get the sill lips in the right place to ease door openings.

Stuart.

[AlanT]

Having thought about all this I would reckon that it depends on just how bad or good your doors fitted before you started.

Mine were 1/2in wider at the top than the bottom because the chassis was broken.

 

So I had to recover the whole alignment as I went along.

 

If you started with doors that fitted and you can keep the same alignment then I guess it will all fit correctly.

 

One thing does come out though. Do the sills last.

 

Al.

[Rob Salisbury]

Quote "Do the sills last"

 

My first set lasted from 1965 to 1973, three years later (you can guess what happened during those years) , second set have lasted (with help from "Patch" my trusty MIG welder and a few spools of wire) from 1976 to the present day ....... I do have a new set of inner and outer sills waiting in the loft for when the patches need patches!!.

So yes, they do last ...... just not forever and my car lives in a centrally heated garage.

Cheers Rob

[kiwi-jim]

Thanks Guys appreciate the comments.

just to clarify your option 2 Stuart, because as you say the shape of the inner sills and the corresponding floor pan are such that they sit pretty much in one place only, that I could tack both them in place and then drop the body on the chassis to finally fit the mounts, outer sills doors and guards etc. looking at what I am doing currently and the way all the parts are locking together this seems the best and easiest option as the inner sill floor pan and edges around the floor pan all line up very nicely as the tub sits on the floor., or am I kidding myself and the door fit will show me that. For what ever reason I am a little nervous of splitting the tub into two halves but if I have to I will.

[stuart]

Jim its a bit unfortunate that you have removed the outer sill already as leaving removal of that until last so you have the floor and inner sill back in keeps the door shut line exactly as original and makes life a lot easier. Personally now at the stage you are at I would just go the whole hog and cut the rest in half and do the Option 1 route. Dont forget as you are doing a TR4 you will need to copy exactly the hole in the floor for the handbrake, best copy that to the new floor pan while the old is still in place.

I have emailed you some pictures that may help.

Stuart.

[AlanT]

Are you refitting the existing wings and doors?

 

If not and you have to adjust for new doors and wings I'd definitely separate the two halves and start again.

 

All the doors and wings fit a bit differently

 

Al.

[kiwi-jim]

Split tub it is by the looks of things, certainly the photos you sent me stuart make it look easier to effect some of the other repairs I have to do so I guess it is bite the bullet time. Also Thanks for the heads up on the handbrake hole I hadnt seen that mentioned or talked about anywhere else previously so I would have sailed on with out realising till it was to late.

any other thoughts greatly appreciated. the end result could be interesting I fear.

 

Cheers Jim

[graeme]

Jim,

 

I seem to remember that there is some difference at the rear of the floor pans at the bottom of the B post. The repro floors are for the TR6 and I think kick up to allow clearance for the swinging arms.

 

Stuart will be along to confirm or otherwise!!

 

Cheers

 

Graeme

[AlanT]

If I can get mine back which had no sills or floors with any strength left in them and a broken chassis using the split-ub method then I am sure you will too.

 

Its right that TR6 pans have two turn-up triangles for the swing arms but you may be able to get other parts nowadays.

 

Al

[stuart]

The rear ends of the floor are the same throughout as that kick up on the corner was for the original narrow chassis as fitted to the first 4`s to allow for the front ends of the rear springs.

Stuart.