MilesA Posted February 9, 2013 Report Share Posted February 9, 2013 As I had a spare 15 minutes thought I would remove one of the nuts securing the exhaust manifold to install a heat shield to protect the alternator, using the stud and nut as an anchor point. See photo below. The nut was tight as it should be, but not particularly so (ie no vein bulging effort required to get it moving) and then it was turning smoothly except ...that is all it was doing. It was simply rotating on the stud. The stud is not rotating. So either the stud is stripped under the nut or the nut is stripped. Cannot tighten up the nut; cannot unscrew the nut from the stud. So, although I have never used one, is a 'nut splitter' the thing to use to deal with this offending item and if so, can anyone recommend a decent quality tool? The simplest of jobs on these cars always seem to grow! Thanks - Miles Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest ntc Posted February 9, 2013 Report Share Posted February 9, 2013 Miles Yes it is the best way,and the ones at Halfords work well,but you must split it twice to save any more damage Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AlanT Posted February 9, 2013 Report Share Posted February 9, 2013 (edited) There are two types of splitter. A thing like a heavyweight G-clamp that has a rotatable V-shaped blade. Things that usually come in a set of three sizes, that have a complete ring, that you put over the stud. Either may work here but the usual problem is that they need to be quite thick and dont always fit on in a tight space. I'd probably do this with my small angle-grinder. But then I know how to do it without cutting into the thread. You got to stop just as you come to the crests. Al. Edited February 9, 2013 by AlanT Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted February 9, 2013 Report Share Posted February 9, 2013 (edited) Hi Miles, a possible alternative it to try and force a blade between the washer and the manifold whilst rotating the nut. This may encourage the nut to grab hold of some thread. Otherwise the nut splitter. Just had a thought - put another nut on the remaining stud thread and weld it on - unscrew the stud out. You will require a new stud & nut but they are probably not too good by now. Roger another thought !!! is there room to fit two 'thin' nuts - these are half the thickness of a standard nut. Screw these on and tighten then together then undo the inner nut. The outer nut stops it coming off the stud - so the stud should undo!!!! Edited February 9, 2013 by RogerH Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ianhoward Posted February 9, 2013 Report Share Posted February 9, 2013 I have successfully used the 'ring' type nut-splitter on stubborn nuts without damaging threads - so if I can do it...!!! Only when you have the nut off can you determin what was causing the nut to rotate and not engage the thread! Good luck! Cheers Ian Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AlanT Posted February 9, 2013 Report Share Posted February 9, 2013 There is a fair risk if shearing off these studs by trying to undo them. If you have to undo them, then you take the risk. Otherwise leave 'em in. Roger is right that if you can get the nut to move out it may grab some thread. I might clamp a Mole-wrench on and try pulling it towards me. The kind of pincers used to pull out nails might get behind the nut. Al. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ianc Posted February 9, 2013 Report Share Posted February 9, 2013 You appear to have a steel nut here - all mine are brass, which is better as they don't tend to corrode to the stud. Ian Cornish Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Mick RichardsChange... Posted February 9, 2013 Report Share Posted February 9, 2013 Ian is correct, it is good form to fit Brass nuts on the exhaust manifold, they can be undone even after many hot/cold sessions and being drenched with water. Mick Richards Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Graham Harris Posted February 10, 2013 Report Share Posted February 10, 2013 I dont have a nut spliter in my tool box but i do have a selection of cold chisels. I would go for a verry small sharp cold chisel and start on the end of the nut just above the thread of the stud and bang away until the nut splits. If the thread on the stud looks a bit damaged when you get the nut off , just put a heavy flat washer on as a spacer, you have plenty of spare thread for a new nut. Graham Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AlanT Posted February 10, 2013 Report Share Posted February 10, 2013 Chieselling will do it but you must like hard work! Al. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Graham Harris Posted February 10, 2013 Report Share Posted February 10, 2013 Al , depends on how desperate you are Graham Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BrianC Posted February 10, 2013 Report Share Posted February 10, 2013 If all above suggestions fail, drill 2 or 3 small holes in line, whack in a square shafted screwdriver or chisel and twist with mole-grips or spanner. That may not split the nut but should at least open it enough to loosen it. If it turns, repeat on the opposite side and it should split. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Mick RichardsChange... Posted February 10, 2013 Report Share Posted February 10, 2013 You should get a nut splitter on, however as some of the other respondents note you can split the nut by drilling. However in my experience the best way to do that is with a small dia drill LENGTHWAYS in parallel to the stud, by this method you can ensure the outside dia of the hole coincides or just touches the thread crests (an area hardly touched in the clamping process), finish the splitting by using a 1/4 inch very sharp chisel again lengthwise down the stud following the hole axis. I should avoid striking the nut from 90deg to stud axis so as not to introduce a bending moment into the stud. Mick Richards. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MilesA Posted February 10, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2013 As ever, thanks everyone for ALL those suggestions! I am going to prepare a list of options but I think physical access may discount a couple. I am very conscious of not damaging the stud in any way so will try a couple of the non-invasive options first. Once I have resolved this problem, I will set about some remedial activity by sourcing some brass nuts... Update after I next visit the car which could be a couple of weeks. Thanks again - Miles Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted February 10, 2013 Report Share Posted February 10, 2013 If all above suggestions fail, drill 2 or 3 small holes in line, whack in a square shafted screwdriver or chisel and twist with mole-grips or spanner. That may not split the nut but should at least open it enough to loosen it. If it turns, repeat on the opposite side and it should split. Hi Brian, I like your cavalier approach to tools. I bet you use your 6" steel rule as screwdriver for small screws. And before you ask - yes! I do as well. And a selection of wood chisels for removing paint/underseal. The only exception is not to use the micrometer and vernier as a G clamp. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mike Kitchener Posted February 10, 2013 Report Share Posted February 10, 2013 Miles, Would it not be possible to leave the nut where it is, add the heat shield and put a second nut to secure everything? ( The stud appears to be long enough) Cheers, Mike. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MilesA Posted February 10, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2013 Hi Mike Yes, that one is on the list too! Brass nut though! Thanks - Miles Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BrianC Posted February 10, 2013 Report Share Posted February 10, 2013 Roger, I am the very model of a coarse TR engineer! Comes from having owned and run Triumphs on a shoestring for most of my life and it certainly helps to have inherited most of my Dad's 'demob' tools which stand up to all sorts of abuse which whithers modern equivalents. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted February 10, 2013 Report Share Posted February 10, 2013 Hi Miles, adding an extra nut and leaving the dodgy one in place may not be the best idea (although very tempting). If the dodgy nut does not tighten then it may not run down the iffy thread to allow the new nut to do its job. So you may end up with a leaky manifold. However I suppose if the new nut tightens then it may be OK. If you go down this avenue, then as the new nut tightens try and keep the old nut spinning (doing up) at the same time. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MilesA Posted February 10, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2013 Noted - will report back when I can. Miles Quote Link to post Share on other sites
valvebounce Posted February 10, 2013 Report Share Posted February 10, 2013 I think I would think about buying a proper stud extractor socket. It looks like you have enough room to get it on, and it should be an easy way of getting it out. Nut splitters and hammers are hard work, and have got to be the last resort. http://toolstoday.co.uk/product/51801/teng-tools-1-2-dr-6mm-stud-extractor-st12506-c?cat=2689 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AlanT Posted February 10, 2013 Report Share Posted February 10, 2013 Just be careful you dont break it off, Al. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rodbr Posted February 10, 2013 Report Share Posted February 10, 2013 Hi Miles, Been there done that but in my case the stud had corroded under the nut unseen, with threads stripped. Double nutted and sheared the stud. I suggest the following, Dremel or similar (Check Aldi if you dont have one) carbide cutting disc in a spiral to get as such as possible cut off. Fine chisel the cut and nut should split. Remove the manifold. Buy or borrow stud extractor and fit with it right flush at the head to get maximum purchase. This type: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sealey-Stud-Remover-Extractor-Installer-6-19mm-VS7232-/390226448823?pt=UK_Hand_Tools_Equipment&hash=item5adb4f11b7 This type grip the stud close to the point of entry into the head. Suggest that you change all studs while you have the manifold off using the borrowed extractor. Fit with copaslip and brass nuts on all studs, refit manifolds and forget in the certain knowledge you have another 50 years to work on them again. Double nutting is likely to end in tears, fitting heat shield with a second nut only puts off the ineviatable and possibly you have no room to cut or put a splitter on. This is purely the way I did it and in my case the stud the stud sheared off with only a 1/4" remaining visible but it still came out easily. The stud at the bulkhead end of the head is particularly prone to shearing as it passes into the water jacket and rusts seriously. Good luck Rod Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AlanT Posted February 10, 2013 Report Share Posted February 10, 2013 I hate these things. The post from Rodbr is exactly right. It wont be fun trying to drill this out if it breaks below the surface. The studs were copper-plated originally I think? Al. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MilesA Posted February 10, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2013 Slightly overwhelmed but thanks to all. I have a range of ways for removing the offending nut and some advice for extracting the stud(s) if it turns out to be damaged or I shear it in the process of removing the nut. Rod - one point of clarification. I have an old rechargeable Dremel which I use constantly but I am not sure what you mean by using a "carbide cutting disc in a spiral"? And are stud extractors really that easy and successful in use? Miles Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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