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New electronic ignition?


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Got my garage nearly sorted for the winter and one of the main projects will be installing the Moss supercharger kit. On this note I´ve been thinking a lot about what to do with the ignition. I think the engine will benefit from getting a better ignition than the old original one. I´ve been looking at the 123Ignition Tune version, it costs but being able to do some custom ignition mapping seems like a bit of fun too.

 

Thoughts?

 

regards,

Vegard

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Vegard,

Excellent choice that blower kit, it will transform the feel of the engine.

The old original ignition works OK with my old Wade blower, but I had to fit my own boost-retard mechanism. So check out the 123 has a 'boost retard' facility.

You may not need boost retard, it depends on 1. the fuel available (97RON or better) 2. the compression ration and 3. the max boost, and 4 other things like heat. I think the Moss kit has quite conservative boost: 6psi at 5000rpm so I'd expect that to be safe from detonation without boost retard even with a 9.5Cr head, given 97RON. But having b-r would allow you to raise the boost with the pulley ratio..... but not too much!

Peter

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Vegard,

Excellent choice that blower kit, it will transform the feel of the engine.

The old original ignition works OK with my old Wade blower, but I had to fit my own boost-retard mechanism. So check out the 123 has a 'boost retard' facility.

You may not need boost retard, it depends on 1. the fuel available (97RON or better) 2. the compression ration and 3. the max boost, and 4 other things like heat. I think the Moss kit has quite conservative boost: 6psi at 5000rpm so I'd expect that to be safe from detonation without boost retard even with a 9.5Cr head, given 97RON. But having b-r would allow you to raise the boost with the pulley ratio..... but not too much!

Peter

 

 

Peter,

 

From what I can see it looks like it has this facility:

two vacuum-advance and boost-retard curves

( 0 to 200 kPa or -30 inHg to +15 psi )

 

One thing with this is that I need to convert the tacho to an electronic one.

Not a huge thing, but I don´t want it to be a never ending project which is so easy when

the winter comes and you start taking the car apart.

 

/ vegard

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Peter,

 

From what I can see it looks like it has this facility:

two vacuum-advance and boost-retard curves

( 0 to 200 kPa or -30 inHg to +15 psi )

 

One thing with this is that I need to convert the tacho to an electronic one.

Not a huge thing, but I don´t want it to be a never ending project which is so easy when

the winter comes and you start taking the car apart.

 

/ vegard

 

Vegard

Thats looking good, but check with 123 that the boost sensor in the disy will be OK with petrol-air mixture not pure air.

If the Moss kit is geared to give 6psi at 5000rpm and you have a USA-spec 8.5:1 compression head I think the standard spark will be fine. I get 6psi at 2800rpm and it doesn't detonate ( on 97RON and 8.5 Cratio.) So yours will be fine at 6psi at 5000rpm - forget boost retard. But you must be certain of the Cratio!

I recommend Alan Allard's book - out of print but Amazon has seconds. It covers all the basics and will allow you to see the potential beyond the standard Moss kit.

Peter

Edited by Peter Cobbold
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You could also go the mega-jolt route. It comes with a 2 bar MAP sensor as standard - only problem is the unit requires some innovative thinking on the part of fitting the trigger wheel, coil pack and mounting the VR sensor. One coil per plug means plenty of spark to ignite the better filled combustion chamber with that super charger and it is fully mappable with a laptop, it can also be configured with an additional input - knock sensor may be useful for your application. I have an additional temperature sensor which I am going to configure to work with a modern air valve from something suitable (???TBC) to allow additional air in on the choke cycle so as the car warms it will close down thus removing the need for me to sit in the car and apply a little throttle (PI TR6 in case you are wondering).

 

Have a look at this link... http://www.autosportlabs.org/viewforum.php?f=9&sid=6090d2a8c83eb66eddb2044372aff702

And a Triumph with mega-jolt... http://www.autosportlabs.org/viewtopic.php?t=3366 and http://www.autosportlabs.org/viewtopic.php?t=1904

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The Megajolt looks very interesting. If I went this route I could leave the orignal distributor there or make a cut down version to supply the mechanical tacho. But I´m a bit unsure about the trigger wheel and the sensor. Do you know of any that sells a trigger wheel that would work out of the box?

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Hi, Vegard, I fitted a blower to my CF in March. Peter knows a huge amount about blowers - without him, I wouldn't have got past the starting blocks.

 

A couple of notes: you might talk to Kai Radicke in New York - he has done quite a bit of work with blowers in the past. He can supply you with a 123Tune, or a full distributerless system. He can also convert your tacho to electronic.

 

Good luck, stay in touch, and let us know how you get on. If you are in Normandy, you can come look at mine!

Austin

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. I´ve been looking at the 123Ignition Tune version, it costs but being able to do some custom ignition mapping seems like a bit of fun too.

 

123 lectronic ignition is a good choice. Two weeks ago I had a conversation with the guy (Henry Hebels) who builds the 123 sets in al kind of cars like Maserati, Rolls Royce etc. Nice quy, good product.

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The Megajolt looks very interesting. If I went this route I could leave the orignal distributor there or make a cut down version to supply the mechanical tacho. But I´m a bit unsure about the trigger wheel and the sensor. Do you know of any that sells a trigger wheel that would work out of the box?

 

I am afraid not. There is a little machining to do to get the trigger wheel fitted. I have got mine from http://trigger-wheels.com/store/contents/en-uk/d5.html and I intend to put the crank pulley into a local machine shop to get a shoulder machined off the back to fit the trigger wheel to over winter. Like I said above, this isn't a simple fit, but it may give you more options going forward if you fit a blower. There was a great article in TR Action about 3 years ago where the chap with the TR250 in one of the links above explained the whole process step-by-step.

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I had a chat with Trigger Wheels regarding the Megajolt kit for the Triumph GT6, http://trigger-wheel.../en-uk/d46.html and I asked about if it would fit the TR6 as well.

According to them it should, but I suppose they might have left out small details regarding the universal trigger wheel.

 

I've also been in touch with Kai @ Wishbone Classics in NY. He could supply me with a 123Ignition with base curves already loaded that would fit a forced induction setup. He also thought

it was a lot easier route to go compared to the fully distributor less setup.

 

I know Revington does conversion of mechanical tachos to electronic ones, are there any other that offers this service ?

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I had a chat with Trigger Wheels regarding the Megajolt kit for the Triumph GT6, http://trigger-wheel.../en-uk/d46.html and I asked about if it would fit the TR6 as well.

According to them it should, but I suppose they might have left out small details regarding the universal trigger wheel.

 

I've also been in touch with Kai @ Wishbone Classics in NY. He could supply me with a 123Ignition with base curves already loaded that would fit a forced induction setup. He also thought

it was a lot easier route to go compared to the fully distributor less setup.

 

I know Revington does conversion of mechanical tachos to electronic ones, are there any other that offers this service ?

 

 

I'd go with Kai's advice, he's been around the TR6 supercharger story long before it was available in europe, back to the days of the original Vespertini kit that Austin has adapted.

 

Even if you could source a megajolt TR6 trigger wheel dont forget it has to fit when there are two belts and two pulleys. Austin may have a photo. The trigger wheel must fit on the crank not onto the rubber crank damper or the spark will be all over the place, so front to back space might be tight.

 

I dont actually think you'll have any ignition problems with the standard disy if the Moss kit is standard 6psi boost at 5500rpm as long as the CR is 9.5 or less.

And its probably not a good idea to make two big changes at once!

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I don't think I will have any problems at 6psi either... but, I don't think the disy is in great condition anyway. This disy also has the retard vacum so I will

leave it and keep it in the booth as a spare just in case. Kai was gonna come back to me next week with some more information after the thanksgiving weekend, can't

wait to hear what he has to say.

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i fitted megajolt to my 6,cost about £150 for everything and it works A1. heres a photo of the front pully set up..

if the engine coming out you could also fit the sensor to flywheel, even better,

the pick up works on magnetism.

a simpler solution would be to drill small holes in the pully or crank and fit 35 small 3 or 5 mm neodyium magnets.

or you could easily make a disk up with magnets on and fit it in the dizzy.

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i fitted megajolt to my 6,cost about £150 for everything and it works A1. heres a photo of the front pully set up..

if the engine coming out you could also fit the sensor to flywheel, even better,

the pick up works on magnetism.

a simpler solution would be to drill small holes in the pully or crank and fit 35 small 3 or 5 mm neodyium magnets.

or you could easily make a disk up with magnets on and fit it in the dizzy.

 

Maybe magnets could be drilled/glued flush into the Moss blower pulley?

http://www.britishsportswerks.com/images/HPIM0988.JPG

and the sensor mounted on bracket extending back to crankcase, to set it above the chassis cross member?

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