Denis Posted September 23, 2012 Report Share Posted September 23, 2012 Feel a bit silly asking for suggestions having owned my CP car for over 40 years now! But I couldn't get it to fire up on Saturday...I last used it 2 months ago when it ran fine on a 30 mile trip. It has always (last few years) been hard to start from cold, needing a lot of cranking. But always fires up on to all 6 cylinders within a few seconds. And always started first go from warm thereafter. It lives under a dust sheet in a dry brick garage. I've checked it has fuel in the tank, it's got plenty of grunt in the Battery, it's got a good spark at the points, and the Cold Start operates the MU lever fully, and I always let the Lucas pump Sing for several mins before cranking it over. But it didn't even attempt to fire, not one beat! I took out all the Spark Plugs and all were bone dry! So it must be fuel eh? So what do you suggest I do next please guys? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ade_TR6 Posted September 23, 2012 Report Share Posted September 23, 2012 Could be the fuel filter... Had a similar problem 3 years ago and the filter was quite crudded (this is the correct engineering term!!!) up with corrosion product debris from the tank. Like your car, mine had had a prolonged lay up . New filter and a quick check that fuel was reaching the injectors and all was well again. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rien Posted September 23, 2012 Report Share Posted September 23, 2012 Hi Dennis, Maybe you have a broken plastic metering unit drive dog. Rien Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Pat Kinsella Posted September 23, 2012 Report Share Posted September 23, 2012 Have you checked the rotor unit in the metering unit is rotating - mine recently seized breifly and broke the metal drive gear in the pedestal unit. The plastic drive dog between the metering unit rotor and the metal drive gear should normally be the item that breaks - check this out. easy to check Take out the spark plugs, take off the distributor cap, disconnect No6 injector pipe at the metering unit, remove this No6 union from the metering unit. Now slowly rotate the engine in normal direction (via fan / crankshaft main bolt - towards you) check the rotor is turning and when it gets towards No1 firing position carefully watch for the metering unit rotor turning and it should then show the hole in the rotor passing by this No6 outlet union. If it does not appear to rotate or no hole is visable - disconnect the metering unit from the pedestal (3No bolts) and check bothe the plastic drive dog and the metal drive gear for damage. hope this helps Pat Quote Link to post Share on other sites
david johnson Posted September 23, 2012 Report Share Posted September 23, 2012 Work back to and up to the MU/ Is fuel coming up to the fuel connection on the MU. Disconnect pipe at MU and check.Are injectors blocked. Are unions onto MU to injector pipes blocked. Is rotor in MU seized. If fuel not arriving at MU then check filter and fuel progress in boot. David Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Gordon Bayley Posted September 23, 2012 Report Share Posted September 23, 2012 Have you tried taking the injectors out? If you have no fuel spraying out and the pump is running you may not have enough pressure for the injectors to open Check the pressure if possible, it could be the pump or the pressure relief valve; the relief valve could be fauly and not adequately allowing the injector to open or the pump is sluggish There could be other causes but these are the ones I have found recently; not something you would expect Cheers Gordon Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest ntc Posted September 23, 2012 Report Share Posted September 23, 2012 (edited) 9 out of 10 faults will be electrical, start there first, and some Pi will not show fuel when only cranking Edited September 23, 2012 by ntc Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Denis Posted September 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2012 Thanks everyone, I'll try a few of those ideas out. As regards the Injector spray suggestion, surely that only happens when the engine is actually running! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Steve P Posted September 23, 2012 Report Share Posted September 23, 2012 Denis, Cranking the engine will operate the MU and thus fuel delivery to the injectors for start-up. Steve Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest ntc Posted September 23, 2012 Report Share Posted September 23, 2012 Denis, Cranking the engine will operate the MU and thus fuel delivery to the injectors for start-up. Steve Pull them out and without vacuum they will sometimes not Quote Link to post Share on other sites
peejay4A Posted September 23, 2012 Report Share Posted September 23, 2012 Disconnecting the injector pipe from an injector, placed in a suitable container, would prove fuel flow. Disconnect the LT wire from the distributor though just in case it should spring into life. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Gordon Bayley Posted September 24, 2012 Report Share Posted September 24, 2012 Thanks everyone, I'll try a few of those ideas out. As regards the Injector spray suggestion, surely that only happens when the engine is actually running! it needs fuel to start , Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Davidw Posted September 24, 2012 Report Share Posted September 24, 2012 As Neil says, start with electrics. Nearly all fuel faults are electrical! Is the rotor arm shorting? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JJohn Posted September 24, 2012 Report Share Posted September 24, 2012 Has the fuel been sitting in the tank for the 12 months since you last ran the car? If it has, the odds are that the constituents will have separated into water (today's petrols contain ethanol which attracts water), petrol and ethanol. Water will sink to the bottom of the tank and your fuel system will be delivering it to the engine. As water is not very combustible(!), you will not be able to start it. I had just this problem with my mower after its winter lay up - the float chamber was full of water. You should consider draining the tank and refilling with new petrol. If you leave it for a long period again, ensure the tank is full and add a preservative such as POR15. Jim Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Goswell Posted September 24, 2012 Report Share Posted September 24, 2012 After a rebuild I had major problems bleeding the injectors which turned out that I had less than 100 Psi due to low voltage at the pump. Despite having a dedicated power feed to the pump I was loosing one volt both at the pump and the coil. Turned out the ignition switch was going home and dropping the voltage. Worth checking the voltage at the coil compared to the battery shouldn't be very different. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tony Millward Posted September 24, 2012 Report Share Posted September 24, 2012 If you leave it for a long period again, ensure the tank is full and add a preservative such as POR15. Jim Love it..... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Denis Posted September 24, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 24, 2012 (edited) Has the fuel been sitting in the tank for the 12 months since you last ran the car? If it has, the odds are that the constituents will have separated into water (today's petrols contain ethanol which attracts water), petrol and ethanol. Water will sink to the bottom of the tank and your fuel system will be delivering it to the engine. As water is not very combustible(!), you will not be able to start it. I had just this problem with my mower after its winter lay up - the float chamber was full of water. You should consider draining the tank and refilling with new petrol. If you leave it for a long period again, ensure the tank is full and add a preservative such as POR15. Jim No, it was a fresh tank full of Shell's finest V Power just a few weeks ago, half a tank still left in it. And it's not a Mower! Edited September 24, 2012 by Denis Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Denis Posted September 24, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 24, 2012 (edited) As Neil says, start with electrics. Nearly all fuel faults are electrical! Is the rotor arm shorting? Nope, I have spark at the Plugs! Just no fuel being delivered...And when I last used the car (6 weeks ago) it ran perfectly as it always has done...when I get a moment I'll check out the MU rotation and disconnect the fuel feed if it does. I'll also fit a new Fuel Filter. And report my progress here sometime next week. Thanks guys. Edited September 24, 2012 by Denis Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JJohn Posted September 27, 2012 Report Share Posted September 27, 2012 I now realise that, by saying that a fuel preservative such as POR15 should be used in the tank when the car is left for a long period, my words could have been taken to cover the rust treatment product whose use is described in another post. However, POR15 is the trade name applied to a whole range of products, one of which is described as "Fuel Preservative & Stabilser". This was included in the tank cleaning and lining kit I purchased and I used it last winter. All was well on the restart after approx 3 months without running the car. Perhaps I should be more careful in future if I am to avoid the cryptic comments from fellow forumites! Jim Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tony Millward Posted September 27, 2012 Report Share Posted September 27, 2012 At least you gave me a chuckle Jim, all in good fun mate... Cheers Tony Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JJohn Posted September 27, 2012 Report Share Posted September 27, 2012 Fair do's Tony. I must have missed one of the pills when I posted my advice! Jim Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Denis Posted September 27, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 27, 2012 (edited) She Runs!!!! One of my sons is a 'Techi' ...(what in my day was called a 'Mechanic') and kindly popped over this evening with Multi Meter and fancy Snap-on Tools and got it going...and yes folks it was ignition! The funny part is...when he looked at the internals of the 'dizzy' he said "whats that and that and that?" ...err "it's called Points & Condensor and a Coil!" Unbelievable in his 8 years as a full time Technician at main dealerships for new Toyotas, Renaults and Range Rovers he had never come across Points! Also the Mechanical Lucas Pi system he found most bizzare...only knowing his way around ECU's and Electronic Fuel Injection Systems! Whatever, once he got over the shock and worked out how the LT side worked with the Coil etc it was a runner, albeit it's fouled it's plugs up now so I'll have to buy a new set tomorrow. A small price to pay. Thanks all and of course Number 3 son! Edited September 30, 2012 by Denis Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest ntc Posted September 27, 2012 Report Share Posted September 27, 2012 Nice one Denis and good on the lad well done to him most try and mess with the Pi system when there is nothing wrong with it Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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