Louis Posted August 22, 2012 Report Share Posted August 22, 2012 Hi Guys, can anyone tell me 1; if a triumph stag expansion tank will be fit for use on the 3a. 2; A what height it will need to be mounted in relation to the rad. Thanks Louis Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fireman049 Posted August 22, 2012 Report Share Posted August 22, 2012 Hi Louis ~ Mount the expansion tank as high above the radiator as you possibly can. This will allow any air to bleed out of the cooling system. My (Rover SD1 expansion tank is mounted above the wiper motor on my TR3A). Don't forget you need to fit a 'plain' cap to the radiator and the 'pressurised' cap to the expansion tank. Regards ~ Tom. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Louis Posted August 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 23, 2012 I was hoping the height wouldn't matter to much. I'm sure I've seen one mounted the same height as the washer bottle. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Menno van Rij Posted August 23, 2012 Report Share Posted August 23, 2012 (edited) For educational purposes only: the engine bay of a Saab 99. Notice the position of the expansion tank. The highest point of the tank (= cap) is positioned at the highest possible position. As long as you make sure that the cap of your car has the same position, all will be fine! Conclusion: I would try to find a plastic 'see through' tank and make sure that it's positioned as high as possible. Menno Edited August 23, 2012 by Menno van Rij Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dave Larnder Posted August 24, 2012 Report Share Posted August 24, 2012 Hi Louis Mine is installed where the blanking plate would have been for the RHD pedal box, it has made the world of difference to my car during the summer months in particular. Before I fitted it and went to Classic Le Mans in 2010, I moved off at 4:00 a.m. so as to avoid the heat of the day going through northern Spain and still used 7 litres of water to refill the rad, after the car overheated and threw out the excess expanded water. Last year to Morges on Lake Geneva, I didn't need any for the same 2500 mile roundtrip as it was for Le Mans. Dave Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BlueTR3A-5EKT Posted August 25, 2012 Report Share Posted August 25, 2012 (edited) Mine, a see through plastic thing from a Dolomite, is bolted to the inner wing RH side level with the wing top. I have to fill the radiator through the rad cap and top the expansion tank to the minimum line once the blanking cap is on. I use a Frogeye 4lb rad cap on the expansion tank, and a Morris 1100 blanking cap on the rad. I have no water loss issues currently. I have often toyed with moving it up behind the wiper motor, screwed to the LHD master cyl blanking plate. Maybe one day, but then I will have to shift the screen washer bottle. What expansion tank did you use Dave? Cheers Peter W Edited August 25, 2012 by BlueTR3A-5EKT Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dave Larnder Posted August 26, 2012 Report Share Posted August 26, 2012 Hi Pete Mine is a specially made up "period looking" one, that I saw once somewhere before, but can't remember where, but it was by a racing team. It wasn't cheap, but it looks the part and certainly does the job. It takes the place of the blanking plate for the RHD pedal box, so it does protrude slightly into the cab and uses the same fixing points. If I had to make another I wouldn't let it protrude into the cab but have it shaped like the blanking plate. Dave Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BlueTR3A-5EKT Posted August 26, 2012 Report Share Posted August 26, 2012 Thanks Dave Peter W Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Menno van Rij Posted August 26, 2012 Report Share Posted August 26, 2012 I never felt the need for an expansion tank in my carI, but it's an interesting topic. The only thing missing are Pictures!!! A collection of pics about this subject can be very useful for other members/future TR-owners. Menno Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mike Kitchener Posted August 26, 2012 Report Share Posted August 26, 2012 Hi Menno, A couple of pics here: http://tinyurl.com/bm8p7xx Cheers, Mike. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Menno van Rij Posted August 26, 2012 Report Share Posted August 26, 2012 (edited) Nice! And not only the expansion bottle! When looking at your car's radiator and what you wrote about the small leak, I now realise that that an expansion bottle + the blanking off cap set up on the radiator can mean the end of the radiator with the filler neck! Thus overcoming the 2/3/3A radiator weakest spot: the connection between the neck and and the rad body. Edit: here's a nice article about cooling: http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/Cooling/ note the difference between a SURGE tank and and an EXPANSION bottle (I didn't know the difference) Menno Edited August 26, 2012 by Menno van Rij Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dave Larnder Posted August 27, 2012 Report Share Posted August 27, 2012 Hi Menno et al. I'm glad that you do not find it necessary to use a remote header tank, but then in Holland you probably rarely experience day temperatures that are higher than blood temperature i.e. 37 deg.C, as we do here in Spain. As far as photos go, I would be only to happy to e mail you a picture of my tank for you to put onto the forum for me, as I have only ever once put pictures on, only to have them censored by someone unknown and removed the next day, presumably as I have an Apple Mac machine and the method must be different for loading on. Dave Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Menno van Rij Posted August 27, 2012 Report Share Posted August 27, 2012 As far as photos go, I would be only to happy to e mail you a picture of my tank for you to put onto the forum for me, as I have only ever once put pictures on, only to have them censored by someone unknown and removed the next day, presumably as I have an Apple Mac machine and the method must be different for loading on. The easiest way is sending me an email (I'll send you my email address). But if you want to share the pics with all other members, something like Picasa or Photobucket is more convenient. PM in the making! Menno Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Louis Posted August 27, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 27, 2012 Cheers Chaps... Please keep the replies and thoughts coming, ie what car the bottle was obtained from, mounting points etc. It all helps when deciding whats best for each of us. Can anyone tell me if the Stag one I have is suitable..? Regards Louis Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Mick RichardsChange... Posted August 27, 2012 Report Share Posted August 27, 2012 Personally I think not. The Stags container is more of an overflow bottle where any displaced water in the system (from excess pressure or increased temperature) is contained and then is sucked back into the engine as it cools down, the positioning of the bottles are low down at the bottom of the radiator. There are a couple of modifications on the Stag forum where the owners fit pukka expansion tanks from other models (current Mercedes models which have 20lbs caps, (in stainless) to augement the Stags cooling system. The positioning of these tanks are in the top of the engine bay with the tanks water level above the top of the engine, which helps "balance" the cooling system not least because the tanks illustrated look to contain an additional litre at least ! I'm thinking of fitting this on my own Stag, if I can buy a suitable expansion tank now I've publicised this ! I think is what you are trying to achieve. Mick Richards Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Menno van Rij Posted August 27, 2012 Report Share Posted August 27, 2012 (edited) Here's Dave's solution. He sent me the pic and I've uploaded it on my Photobucket account. That way it will stay on the 'net. I think it's a very need solution on a LHD TR! Last weekend, I was thinking about other solutions. Here's a weird one: the header tank on a Saab Sonett III: the bar across the engine bay is the tank!! Edited August 27, 2012 by Menno van Rij Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Don Elliott Posted August 27, 2012 Report Share Posted August 27, 2012 I suggest you ask the TR4 owners for photos of where the bottle is located in their TR4. From my recollection it is down on the inner wing next to where the horn on the RHS is located on our sidescreen TRs. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ianc Posted August 27, 2012 Report Share Posted August 27, 2012 Dave's solution is very neat, but I am a little concerned that the hose connected to the radiator (the left of the photo) is a push fit onto the tube, yet will be subjected to either 4 or 7 psi (depending on radiator cap) when the engine is running. I would expect such a pressure to blow the unclipped hose from the pipe - and a clip is required at both ends, of course. To answer Don's question regarding the positioning of a Header Tank in a TR4, see my article in Section B19 of the Technicalities CD (there are photos). It's not the only possible mounting point, but it is very close to the radiator and makes good use of the front of the bulge on the right side of the bonnet! Ian Cornish Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Menno van Rij Posted August 27, 2012 Report Share Posted August 27, 2012 either 4 or 7 psi (depending on radiator cap) Why is there a difference between the pressure? Menno Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ianc Posted August 28, 2012 Report Share Posted August 28, 2012 I think I've always used a 7 psi radiator cap on my TR2s and TR4 (from 1963 to now), but I think I have seen some folk refer to 4 psi, so I was trying to cover all possibilities. I am sure someone (Pete W?) will give us the facts! Ian Cornish Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Louis Posted August 28, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 28, 2012 Hi Mark. What you describe with using the stag bottle I will be happy with... Just maintaining the level would be helpful. Will this mean I still need to fit a 0lb cap on the rad and a 4lb on the expansion bottle...? I think the theory behind a higher lb cap is the higher the cap the higher the boiling point of the water... Louis Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest ntc Posted August 28, 2012 Report Share Posted August 28, 2012 (edited) There is no need for an expansion tank if everything else is in good order for road use, the only gain is the stat housing gets more protection Edited August 28, 2012 by ntc Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ian Vincent Posted August 28, 2012 Report Share Posted August 28, 2012 If you use longlife coolant which doesn't boil (well not at normal engine temps) does that do away with the need for an overflow tank? I saw it at the IWE and whilst I didn't get drawn into a conversation with the guy selling it, I got the impression that you could run with a 0lb cap because there was no extra pressure at normal running temperature. Rgds Ian Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Mick RichardsChange... Posted August 28, 2012 Report Share Posted August 28, 2012 Hi Louis, As Neil states its important to try and confirm the cooling system is in good order, with the Stag engine any water leaks (from inlet manifolds into the V or other myriad places on the engine) may lead to water loss out and air ingestion in ! This often causes the "surge" or "overflow" bottle not to work correctly and the top up water (which is only a cupful !) remains in the bottle whilst the engine devours the water. If an expansion tank is fitted place it as high as possible as described by Tom and others, I think the rad will have a straight forward closure cap with no pressure rating and then the expansion tank would have a Rad cap of your chosen poundage. As you say the increased presure cap increases the boiling point of the water. Mick Richards Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tom Boyd Posted August 29, 2012 Report Share Posted August 29, 2012 Would this be any good? http://www.triumphspecialtuning.com/index.php?route=product/product&manufacturer_id=23&product_id=147 Tom Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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