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How do you improve the brakes!


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Hi

As the title says how can i improve my TR6 brakes?

They work ok but just feel a bit wooden compared to modern cars - am i asking too much!

I have new servo+master cylinder and they are all bled ok but not a lot of progressive feel.

Any suggestions?

 

Thanks

Tony

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Hi Tony,

most of the feel is in the pads themselves.

There are a variety of pads available some better than others. Also the disc is important to go with the pads.

 

EBC Greenstuff works but not to everybodies taste. Mintex definately work but you need the right one (1144 rings a bell)

All the TR spares suppliers have their thought on this and can offer good advice.

 

Over to the experts......

 

Roger

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From my limited experience its important to bed in pads, and EBC Greenstuff come with very specific instructions on bedding in. If you don't bed them in properly (i.e. you collect from the garage having had them fitted and drive normally) you will find they are glazed over and don't really bite in a progressive way.

I am on my second set and use them on the road and track, and they work. However, I empathise with the wooden feel. I think part of the issue is the fairly basic servo compared to a modern car.

I also have Mintex (not sure what number) on my other car, with 4 pot callipers, and they have a lot more feel, but i think that may be more to do with the spread of pressure due to the 4 callipers. I have a standard TR servo on that car.

Theories!

Nick

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Tried the EBC more than once ; wooden. The best are the old school pads with asbestos. Usually picked up at autojumbles. May not be H and S approved but a noticeable difference with real bite. Didn't get on with the Mintex either too hard with standard brakes

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi,

 

I've found that the 'make or brake' is the condition of the discs and the callipers. Since fitting new standard discs and refurbishing the standard callipers (both relatively easy jobs) my brakes are now as effective as a modern car (without the ABS, of course!). It's a myth that our TR6s have poor brakes - the reality is that a TR6 with brakes in poor condition does not brake very well (like any other car).

 

As for the pads, I'm using Mintex 1144 pads. They work very well on the road, and also when sprint and hill climbing.

 

Paul

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Hi Paul,

 

I quite agree with you, and choice of pad too.

 

 

Providing the brakes are in good order, they are effective.

 

I have a track car with AP Racing four pots, Cosworth vented discs, Mintex 1144 pads, braided hoses, Alfin drums, and new servo, shoes etc. This car REALLY does brake, but depends on what you use your car for.

 

Cheers.

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Gotta say that I agree with the majority of contributors on this subject. I found that the EBC greenstuff just wasn't up to the job and so I fitted the Mintex 1144s and I am impressed with the difference they make. My front brakes are standard set up so nothing special or uprated to provide a difference. Try the Mintex. They are regularly found on Ebay.

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Have tried all sorts of pads over 25 years of 'spirited' TR6 motoring and have found even the standard Mintex road compound is better than any 'aftermarket' product - have tried EBC and Hawk pads but soon replaced them as they had no bite or feel on standard discs/caliper set up, an expensive error that i will not be repeating.

 

If you want something that can take a bit more 'heat' suggest you try Ferodo DS Performance - work well even from cold (unlike the 1144 Mintex compound - in my experience) but if the rear drums are not properly adjusted or below par you just get front wheel lock up whichever pad you use!

 

Not wishing to 'teach you to suck eggs' but it is worth checking your flexible pipes for condition and/or replacing with Aeroquip hoses + how old is your brake fluid? also don't forget to check bearing play as if a bit 'generous' then pad knock-back can sometimes occur, which gives a soggy feel to the peddle until the 'slack is taken up'.

 

If the original standard braking system is properly set up then it should be more than up to the requirements of road use. But if you are after a 'modern day' braking performance then you should start looking into vented front disc and rear disc conversions - you pays your money etc.

 

Hope this helps

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The old Asbestos pads were the best for 'bite' as 'RobinTR6' says above...I'll have to find an Autojumble then cos since fitting recon Calipers, new discs, hoses, wheel cylinders and bleeding the system the braking with several types of modern pads has been not a patch on the way I remember they were years ago...it slows down ok, but no 'bite' to em!

Edited by Denis
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I am going to Beauliieu autojumble next week and hope to find some there. Last set cost me 10 pounds but silly me sold the car with them on.....

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Neil

Agreed and I still asbestos pads are better feel a.d bite with standard brakes

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I read this on the 6 pack forum relating to improving braking performance and the popular (Stateside) Toyota conversion-

 

The solution to improved braking is much cheaper and easier (and much more effective) than upgrading to Toyota calipers. Simply replace your existing rear slave cylinders with the rear brake cylinders from a Morgan or a Sunbeam Alpine. The stock cylinders are 0.7" in diameter, while the Sunbeams are 0.875". This increases the stopping force on the rear brakes by 55%, which is substantial and results in noticeably shorter stops.

 

Any thoughts on this?

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Nick

 

and I quote from Roger Williams book on How to Improve your TR

 

'1979-1983 Toyota petrol four wheel drive pick up'

 

same mounting holes and four pot calipers, much bigger pads (about 40%), can be used with original TR rotors. Toyota uses the late stepped metric securing bolts.

 

PS Nick , let me know if you find a cheap source for these

 

Regards

Robin

Edited by RobinTR6
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Be careful using larger rear cylinders as you may upset the brake balance that was carefully thought out by Standard Triumph. ;)

Stuart.

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Agreed Stuart. I've often found that the first route to take to improve these cars is to take them back to standard spec. Some parts are no longer available such as asbestos in braking material so you then have to go to the next best thing but the Triumph engineers did know a thing or two.

 

My brakes are standard with fluid changed ever couple of year and everything kept in good order. I step from my modern BMW into this old car and yes, there is a difference of course but the brakes are good for even spirited daily driving.

 

 

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Very difficult to compare car with car unless suspension is standard. I use bog standard brakes and silicone ( theres no wooden feel). But stiff, lowered springs and nylatron stainless or silentbloc bushes made a huge difference to braking. Much of the improvement is I think due to reduced 'nosediving', which is where the oversized rear cylinders might help. Cadence braking solves the lack of ABS - the 205s bite 'instantly' to each stamp on the pedal.

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I've got EBC pads, silicone fliud, braided pipes, standard calipers and servo. I can push the 6 into groaning its front wheels from speed in the dry if I try hard enough, so I am assuming my Michelins are what's limiting my stopping distance.

 

Yes the tyres should be limiting - if the brakes wont lock the wheels then they're not working properly.

Locked wheels also dont permit braking to the maximum possible. So the instant the front wheels loose grip release the pedal then stamp on it hard - really hard! - again, and repeat. At about one stamp per second you'll find the deceleration is much better than on a locked, sliding tyre.

http://www.digplanet.com/wiki/Cadence_braking

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Guest Mick RichardsChange...

Peter,

 

Point to remember, very few competition TRs used to use servo assisted brakes. I tried it ( and so did many of my contempories) and we all discovered that when Mr A came knocking (even with standard calipers, and road going pads) that you locked up the front wheels too easily.

 

A TR in standard mode has a pretty good brake system, and as long as it performs to design parameters is easily capable of locking wheels with tyres up to 195 profile even with sticky tyres. If you can jump on the brakes and then develop enough feel so that you can release pressure just prior to locking up you can achieve remarkable stopping characteristics.

 

I admit that a road going TR with a servo is an easier drive, (my knackered knees appreciate it) but you do have to drive it mindfully with due respect to locking of wheels.

 

Mick Richards

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Peter,

 

Point to remember, very few competition TRs used to use servo assisted brakes. I tried it ( and so did many of my contempories) and we all discovered that when Mr A came knocking (even with standard calipers, and road going pads) that you locked up the front wheels too easily.

 

A TR in standard mode has a pretty good brake system, and as long as it performs to design parameters is easily capable of locking wheels with tyres up to 195 profile even with sticky tyres. If you can jump on the brakes and then develop enough feel so that you can release pressure just prior to locking up you can achieve remarkable stopping characteristics.

 

I admit that a road going TR with a servo is an easier drive, (my knackered knees appreciate it) but you do have to drive it mindfully with due respect to locking of wheels.

 

Mick Richards

 

Mick

The cadence method seems to get round the front end sliding - I used it for the autosolo finish box and maybe occasionally on a hill. Never needed it on public road - touch wood - but might be useful, who knows.

 

My memories of the 6 as a daily driver in standard trim lead me to be less positive than you about its braking - but its mostly I think the suspension that let it down by allowing much weight transfer. The brakes themselves were fine for me most of the time, although the rear cylinders did not like ice/snow/salt and glycol fluid.

cheers

Peter

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