billg Posted July 11, 2012 Report Share Posted July 11, 2012 I can report that my 1959 TR3A which was last on the road in 1991 is now enjoying UK motoring after a long sojourn in Texas and Northern Ireland. It took approx 8 years to bring together the finances and skillset to do a complete restoration but this week all the hard work was rewarded with both an MOT and the prising of its original Londonderry registration out of the local DVLA, plus new Historic Tax disc. Looking forward to some drier weather though. Due to the duff weather in Scotland just now I am trying fit the hardtop starting with gluing the rear deck seal with Tiger type seal. I think I may need to make 5 new brackets as the existing ones are not lining up after the fitting of the cappings and chrome baseplates for the mounting bolts. I will re-read the fitting instructions in the Haynes Manual but if anyone has any hot tips especially about fitting the rear window I'd appreciate it. I have made up rain channels etc and sourced various seals, but hope to just firstly get the hardtop to sit neatly on the rear deck and connect squarely with the screen rail. Sidescreens are another story for another day. Regards Bill G North Berwick Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mike Graham Posted July 11, 2012 Report Share Posted July 11, 2012 Congratulations Bill! I think pictures of your work are a requirement :-) Cheers, Mike Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted July 12, 2012 Report Share Posted July 12, 2012 Hardtops can be difficult to get to fit. It would have been better if you had lined up the brackets on the car with the ones on the hardtop first before fitting the capping's and the chrome covers. The rear brackets on the body have slots to accommodate some side to side movement and the ones on the hardtop only have up and down movement. You very often have to file out the holes for the bolts that go down through the rear brackets as I don't think I have ever had one yet that just lined straight up. When fitting you need to leave all the bolts loose until you have fitted all of them and then tighten it down a bit like tightening a head down. Make sure the front mounting section on the hardtop is at the same angle as the screen brackets as its very easy to break the screen if they are wrong and the bolts are trying to pull at the wrong angle. The rear windows are a pain as there isnt much lip on the hardtop for it locate on. This is a better seal though http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/370626099514?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:VRI&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2661 Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BrianC Posted July 12, 2012 Report Share Posted July 12, 2012 I have heard that the repro rear screens are undersize and prone to popping out at moderate speed. I've also seen a few examples of home-made brackets to link the screen physically to the hardtop rather than just relying on the rubber seal. BTW I'm interested in the rear seal kit as I plan to refurbish a steel hardtop eventually (although Lynda keeps telling me I'll never fit it). However, I've had problems buying items subject to customs duty from the US. How does one ensure that the correct duty is paid when ordering via eBay? More to the point, I wonder why someone in the UK doesn't provide the correct profiles, even if it means importing a batch from the US. (Any volunteers?) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Richardtr3a Posted July 12, 2012 Report Share Posted July 12, 2012 My retired engineer friend made me some stainless clamps which hold the rear glass and the rubber seal. I lost two rear windows before and have now tried out top speed without any problems. They are just almost semi circular with a bolt through the middle. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ed Davies Posted July 12, 2012 Report Share Posted July 12, 2012 Hi Like most of the comments above it's very tricky. I needed help from two friends otherwise I wouldn't have got the rear window in place. At times it looks like it will never fit. I used the black polyurethane adhesive from this link http://www.sealsdirect.co.uk/shopping.asp?intDepartmentId=7 and injected it down the sides of the rudder seal once the window is in place. It was important to masked off the area first as it gets everywhere and can be difficult to wipe off. It's not popped out so far, but I have started to get some stress fractures appearing. I put a heat gun on the window to try and relieve some of stress points, it's stopped the window from trying to pull out of the corners, but you have to be careful not to overheat one area, it changes shape very quickly as it's under pressure Not sure if it was a good idea.. I didn't use the normal rubber seal at the front, between the hardtop and windscreen, as I found a thick strip of expanded neoprene did a better job of sealing. I think it's worth the effort as it keeps you (and the car) a lot drier, I don't get any leaks which is more than I can say for my softtop. Ed Quote Link to post Share on other sites
foster461 Posted July 13, 2012 Report Share Posted July 13, 2012 Am I correct that the attachment points that secure the hardtop to the tub must be permanently fixed to the tub and require modification of the capping and windshield frame ?. Anyone have any pictures ?. Stan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BrianC Posted July 13, 2012 Report Share Posted July 13, 2012 You could unscrew the 3 windscreen brackets and the 5 brackets under the tonneau cappings, but why would you want to? The only parts which would not be easily removable (because they would leave holes and pressure indentations) are the chromed covers on top of the tonneau cappings. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
foster461 Posted July 13, 2012 Report Share Posted July 13, 2012 You could unscrew the 3 windscreen brackets and the 5 brackets under the tonneau cappings, but why would you want to? The only parts which would not be easily removable (because they would leave holes and pressure indentations) are the chromed covers on top of the tonneau cappings. The reason I posed this question is because I will need to re-trim my interior as part of the resto and I'm wondering if as part of that project I should make provision for the hardtop. I dont have the attachment hardware yet and I have never seen a picture of how/where the hardtop attaches so I dont know if the attachment points can be retrofitted without modifying the capping for example or if any mods should be made as part of the re-trimming.. Stan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter Pan Posted July 13, 2012 Report Share Posted July 13, 2012 Fitted my hard top about 2 years ago having driven soft top T.R since 1963 and I love it, makes long distant motoring ( France Etc ) much less tireing ,it also tightens the whole car up, and so improves the handling and it's lovely driving with the side screens in the boot when the sun shines!!!!!!!!Plus I stay dry now Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sidescreen Posted July 13, 2012 Report Share Posted July 13, 2012 Why not try Honeybourne mouldings for a new (repro) window including new rubbers etc. Look at: http://www.honeybournemouldings.co.uk/ Good luck ! Raymond Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted July 13, 2012 Report Share Posted July 13, 2012 The reason I posed this question is because I will need to re-trim my interior as part of the resto and I'm wondering if as part of that project I should make provision for the hardtop. I dont have the attachment hardware yet and I have never seen a picture of how/where the hardtop attaches so I dont know if the attachment points can be retrofitted without modifying the capping for example or if any mods should be made as part of the re-trimming.. Stan If you are going to ever fit the hardtop then its best to do all the provision for fitting while doing the shell and also the holes in the cappings then you have both options.I can send you all the relevant info and TRF do the fitting kit complete I believe. Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
foster461 Posted July 13, 2012 Report Share Posted July 13, 2012 If you are going to ever fit the hardtop then its best to do all the provision for fitting while doing the shell and also the holes in the cappings then you have both options.I can send you all the relevant info and TRF do the fitting kit complete I believe. Stuart. Great, thanks Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
billg Posted July 13, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 13, 2012 Thanks for all the advice, just managed to get the basic steel Hardtop fitting snugly on the car after one day's effort with my son helping. Had to use a small burr tool to make sure the lid-a-dot pegs did not foul the Hardtop inner lower strengthener . Front seal above the screenfitted a dream , dry no glue, the rear deck seal was stuck down with Sika but o so messy and mow worried it won't go hard. Will try and tackle the rear window over the weekend, plus the rain gutters an lastly sidescreen brackets. Good steady progress!! Regards Bill g North Berwick Quote Link to post Share on other sites
billg Posted July 17, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2012 IT was too good to last, progress halted due to struggles with the Moss supplied rear screen rubber and Ebay purchased perspex screen. At least I think its perspex and not lexan. The aperture seems too small, either that or the perspex is too big. I have tried pushing up the stel roof which does help but even so I am wondering do I adjust the size of the screen, or find a different seal, or both ? If it is perspex I think I could perhaps plane it carefully with and electric planer ( only for the brave though !) I reckon I need to lose perhaps 1/8 to a 1/4. Will measure up carefully to see if that is a way to go, then try an 1/8 off and have a go. Anyone made their own rear screen? if so from what material? Anyone know where glass ones can got , if at all? Working on the sidescreens now so that the trimmer can cover them and then fit the hood so may park the hardtop till after that. Regards Bill G Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted July 17, 2012 Report Share Posted July 17, 2012 Some of the repro screens have been a bit hit and miss on sizing. If you can then line the window up in the hole and see how the shape conforms to the hole and measure the width of the bit of rubber between the inner and outer channels of your rubber then decide where to go from there. Be very careful planing or cutting the screen down as they can crack easily. Last one I fitted was an original screen with an original rubber and I still struggled with it as every time you got part way round drawing it in it would pop out on the other side. In the end I resorted to some very strong Gaffa tape to hold it in as I worked my way round and then removed it bit by bit as I fitted the filler strip. FWIW there has never been a glass option as far as I know and even if you could find one that would fit you would also need a custom made rubber to go with it. Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BrianC Posted July 17, 2012 Report Share Posted July 17, 2012 If it would help, I have the original perspex window out of my hard-top, so I could measure it and the aperture so you would at least know what you are aiming at. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ed Davies Posted July 17, 2012 Report Share Posted July 17, 2012 Hi Putting the window in is the hardest thing on the car I've done so far, at times it really doesn't want to go. The only way I managed to get the window in was to put the rubber strip around the window first and tape it in place (I think the install guide say put the rubber round the hardtop and fit the window, but I couldn't get that to work) I started in the middle of the window getting both the straight top and bottom sections in first and fixing into position with gaffa tape. I then worked on the corners one at a time. I required two other people to hold the screen to prevent it popping out. I bought a couple suction cups so that it was easier to pull the window from the inside. I also used the trick of winding some cord round the rubber filler strip. I didn't cut my screen, but it is to big on the corners and bulges out a bit. Ed Quote Link to post Share on other sites
billg Posted July 18, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 18, 2012 Hi folks As ever great advice and common sense from Forum contributors, especially Stuart who is a National Treasure for the generous advice and time he gives to TR enthusiasts . The main dimension I need to check is the depth of an original screen and a typical empty aperture measured at the vertical middle position. Pretty certain the aperture is "moveable" and the hole is designed to be a tad smaller than the Perspex plus say an allowance of an 1/8th all round for the main seal. I think the insertion of the locking strip does not really affect this 1/8 clearance but like a grommet there should be some all round pressure peripherally to the screen from the steel aperture . Spent last night on the sidescreen so hope to post some photos tonight via photobucket . Is there an easy way to paste photos into Posts? I use a Mac and an iPhone. Weather still diabolical here so not missing any motoring. Kind regards Bill G @ NB Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BrianC Posted July 18, 2012 Report Share Posted July 18, 2012 Original perspex window at centre: 32cm (12.6") Original steel hardtop window aperture at centre: 33cm (13") Note: Window tapers off slightly towards the start of the end curve (about 6" from the end) but only by a few millimetres. Let me know if you need any other measurements. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
billg Posted July 18, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 18, 2012 Many thanks Brian, will check when I get home tonight Bill G Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest ntc Posted July 18, 2012 Report Share Posted July 18, 2012 Stan If the hood is a good fit you will not need one, I have one and at sometime may get round to fitting it up? but the guys can vouch going to and back from Le Man's 70+mph We had no issues side screens fitted or not Quote Link to post Share on other sites
billg Posted July 19, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2012 The aperture in my Hardtop is slightly different from left to right by about 1/4" hence some of my difficulties plus. There is not enough absolute clearance , allowing for the extra thickness of the seal itself. Will need to do some detailed measurements and adjust the screen by removing about 1/8 to a 1/4 at various places . The Hardtop came of a rally car and I think it has had a hard life( but at £50 one can't complain. Still busy prepping the sidescreen frames for the trimmer. Sunshine has finally appeared in East Lothian so more road testing this weekend. Then car is off to the Trimmers for a few days to do the sidescreens and hood , tonneau and hood frame cover, so waterproof by the next weekend. Sadly won't make Malvern though which is bit of a downer Regards Bill G @NB Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ed Davies Posted July 19, 2012 Report Share Posted July 19, 2012 Bill, there was me thinking you were going to do a hands-on hardtop fitting seminar at Malvern! Ed Quote Link to post Share on other sites
billg Posted July 19, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2012 I had intended to do a How to Make Sidescreens Fit one though which would have had a few takers I think!!! I suppose I could drive down on Thursday see the Morgans and drive back Sat afternoon but that's risky shakedown drive 500 miles on a car that's only got 8 miles on the clock just now!!! Regards Bill G @ NB Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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