fox889 Posted May 27, 2012 Report Share Posted May 27, 2012 OK class, your homework this week is to find out why I broke down 10 times today.................. '73 CP series TR6. I drove around 10 miles this morning, +25 degrees & no problem, came home then drove another 16 miles +25 degrees, everything was fine & enjoying the drive when suddenly she cut out and ghosted to a halt, just as if you had turned the ignition off. The Bosch pump was howling away in the boot, so turned the ignition off, waited 5 minutes then she fired up but only drove 1 mile where again she just cut out & again the pump was howling away in the back. It sounded 'dry' but that maybe me trying to be clever. In short, it took me 4 goes to cover the last 3 miles to ma-in-law's house. It seems that you had to wait 5 minutes for something to cool down? Waited at ma-in-law's for 2 hours & then drove off home as if nothing had happened.....................until I was again, 3 miles from home & without any notice cut out, & the pump?..............noisey & howling. Same scenario, 4 attempts to drive the last 3 miles. After each 5 minute break the pump wasn't noisey, but a mile down the road she pulls up & the pump is as loud as anything! I've driven almost 300 miles over the last 6 months since I've owned her albeit in much cooler temperatures without any problems, today was different, baking hot so fuel evaporastion crossed my mind, but the return trip was much cooler so fuel evaporastion may not be the cause? Previous owner had a Bosch pump installed (July 2011) by a 'specialist' company that advertises in the TR Register, new pump, tap, shiney braided fittings etc. I've put a recon MU & new pipes + injectors in recently from Neil. Incidently, I drove to ma-in-law's 2 weeks ago (+15 degrees) there & back with no issues. I have read that there has been a problem with some Bosch pumps being noisey. Really frustrated but I have every faith in that there's a simple answer out there!!!! Appreciate your help in anticipation. Nick. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jersey Royal Posted May 27, 2012 Report Share Posted May 27, 2012 Nick, Sounds to me abit like fuel starvation. Have you checked the filter from the tank is clean and not full of crud. Worth ruling out anyway. Cheers Guy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stephen cooper Posted May 27, 2012 Report Share Posted May 27, 2012 Sounds like a lack of fuel pressure (pump) or could be debris in tank which can cause problems after a few miles as the rust etc is disturbed. Once settled it'll run for a few more miles etc. Cheers Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tallpaul Posted May 27, 2012 Report Share Posted May 27, 2012 Evidently you need to stop visiting your Ma-in-law............................. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Quentin Posted May 27, 2012 Report Share Posted May 27, 2012 I had the exact same problem last week. The filter had some crud but not enough to cause the fuel loss. I drained the tank, poked a bottle cleaner up the fuel hose into the tank flushed and sloshed the tank a bit, replaced the filter and refilled. I haven't sufferred fuel loss since, however, I do periodically get the strangled cat pump sound (Bosch). I can only assume I have a/some big rust flake(s) that float over the outlet sometimes. Not really sure what to do about that. Is it a big job to remove the tank and have a proper look? I cannot see the outlet from the filler hole, there seems to be a plate in the way. Q Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ianhoward Posted May 27, 2012 Report Share Posted May 27, 2012 Nick As already mentioned, fuel starvation or vapourisation could well be the issue. How low was the fuel tank? I know from experience that less than around a quarter of a tank and especially in hot weather there can be vapourisation issues - 20 mins to cool down an all is well... Good luck with the fault finding! Ian Quote Link to post Share on other sites
fox889 Posted May 28, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 28, 2012 Ian:The tank was on half full. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
fox889 Posted May 28, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 28, 2012 Q: I did look in the boot, there's one of these glass filters which I believe can be cleaned, I did see a couple of 'gribblies' in there but the filter did seem clean(ish) might be worth stripping the boot out then take her for a long run. Luckily enough I have a fuel tap fitted when the new pump was installed so should be easy enough to take the filter apart without filling the boot with fuel! How easy is it to remove the tank just out of interest? Thanks to all. Nick. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted May 28, 2012 Report Share Posted May 28, 2012 Hi Nick, before you attack the big things try the simple things first. It could be fuel but it could also be heat related electrics - Fit a replacement coil. If not change fit new (preferably a good old one) Dizzy capacitor. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Steve in Dublin Posted May 28, 2012 Report Share Posted May 28, 2012 My fuel gauge was showing just under half and I experienced similar problems as you describe above. My problem - the car was running out of fuel and a faulty reading on the fuel gauge....OK I felt like an idiot at the time but I now re-fill the car every 150-175 miles therefore ensuring I have at least a quarter of a tank at all times. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Davidw Posted May 28, 2012 Report Share Posted May 28, 2012 Nick, do you use Castrol valvemaster? I ask because there is a plastic collar around the neck of plastic bottle which, in my case had wormed its way into the fuel outlet. Here it wound itself into perfect circle which would rotate from time to time and block the outlet causing precisely the same symptoms you have described. By the time i had discovered this the pump was effectively u/s and had to be replaced. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Brian Wiggins Posted May 28, 2012 Report Share Posted May 28, 2012 Hi Nick Suffering similar cavitation/vaporisation problems myself particularly in slow moving traffic on warm days so going through a process of elimination myself at present! Everything I've read about this subject points to getting as much fuel to the pump/filter assembly as possible at first base. TRGB sell a larger diamter (8mm?) outlet for the tank for couple of quid. As I inherited a Moss/Bosch conversion this also required a larger banjo for the filter inlet end which had to specially made to allow 12mm hose to be used to connect the two. Not been on a run in the heat to fully test yet but this seems to be part of the Bosch kit sold by some of the TR specialists who claim to have got it right. The oultet can be changed in situ and the tank isn't too difficult to remove and refitt in order to thoroughly clean although getting the filler neck/cap back together was a bit fidly! Good luck! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
badshead Posted May 28, 2012 Report Share Posted May 28, 2012 I agree with the consensus, classic case of pump not getting enough fuel, therefore getting hot and resultant vapourisation/cavitation = breakdown. You mention you've got a fuel tap in line above the pump/pre-filter. Are you sure this isn't providing unnecessary restriction? I've avoided fitting one for that reason, the less stuff in the way the better the supply. You don't really need one as the rubber pipe is easy to clamp off for filter changes etc. Bill Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Beemer Posted May 28, 2012 Report Share Posted May 28, 2012 im really interested to hear how this is resolved. i had to replace tbe MU and seat the fuel pump on the RHS wheel arch to get a clear run. indeed if the temp rises the fuel temp, you may suffet vaporisation but its very subjective (and costly). what is it like with a full tank of fresh cool petrol? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest ntc Posted May 28, 2012 Report Share Posted May 28, 2012 Q: I did look in the boot, there's one of these glass filters which I believe can be cleaned, I did see a couple of 'gribblies' in there but the filter did seem clean(ish) might be worth stripping the boot out then take her for a long run. Luckily enough I have a fuel tap fitted when the new pump was installed so should be easy enough to take the filter apart without filling the boot with fuel! How easy is it to remove the tank just out of interest? Thanks to all. Nick. Your tank/baffles will be full of crud ,and get rid of the glass filter it should not be there, keep the shut off, clamping the pipe is not a good idea Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Stoker Posted May 28, 2012 Report Share Posted May 28, 2012 Hi Nick I too had a similar problem 2 years ago. Transpired in the end that there was a washer in the fuel tank which I can only assume got washed over in to the internal anti swirl pot when I filled up and intermitently covered the outlet. John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
badshead Posted May 28, 2012 Report Share Posted May 28, 2012 clamping the pipe is not a good idea Why? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest ntc Posted May 28, 2012 Report Share Posted May 28, 2012 (edited) It was ok when the pipe was in good nick,std service practise but most now are not, even if they have been replaced Edited May 28, 2012 by ntc Quote Link to post Share on other sites
fox889 Posted May 29, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 29, 2012 Your tank/baffles will be full of crud ,and get rid of the glass filter it should not be there, keep the shut off, clamping the pipe is not a good idea Why get rid of the glass filter, surely a filter is a positive before it (crud) ends up actually in the pump itself? Nick Quote Link to post Share on other sites
fox889 Posted May 29, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 29, 2012 I agree with the consensus, classic case of pump not getting enough fuel, therefore getting hot and resultant vapourisation/cavitation = breakdown. You mention you've got a fuel tap in line above the pump/pre-filter. Are you sure this isn't providing unnecessary restriction? I've avoided fitting one for that reason, the less stuff in the way the better the supply. You don't really need one as the rubber pipe is easy to clamp off for filter changes etc. Bill The Bosch pump 'kit' was installed before I bought her so I can't answer that question, although I think it's actually a good idea which helps when you need to get the tank/filter out, but there again you may have a point. Nick. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
fox889 Posted May 29, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 29, 2012 The Bosch pump 'kit' was installed before I bought her so I can't answer that question, although I think it's actually a good idea which helps when you need to get the tank/filter out, but there again you may have a point. Nick. Just re-read your post, do I take it that you think there's another filter apart from the 'glass' filter that sits between the tank tap & the pump itself? I haven't gone into this much as yet but presumed there's only one filter & that the glass jobby? Nick. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
fox889 Posted May 29, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 29, 2012 Nick, do you use Castrol valvemaster? I ask because there is a plastic collar around the neck of plastic bottle which, in my case had wormed its way into the fuel outlet. Here it wound itself into perfect circle which would rotate from time to time and block the outlet causing precisely the same symptoms you have described. By the time i had discovered this the pump was effectively u/s and had to be replaced. Yes I do & that's something I may have to look at if & when the tank itself comes out for a clean. Nick. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
fox889 Posted May 29, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 29, 2012 Hi Nick, before you attack the big things try the simple things first. It could be fuel but it could also be heat related electrics - Fit a replacement coil. If not change fit new (preferably a good old one) Dizzy capacitor. Roger Roger, if when she stopped the pump wasn't screeching I think I would be tempted to go down your route of 'lecy' problems, but the 'strangled cat' noise from the boot points me in the fuel direction rather than the lecy direction................but hey! I'm no mechanic....your thoughts? Nick. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Pete R Posted May 29, 2012 Report Share Posted May 29, 2012 I had a very similar problem on my 4, which kept cutting out in hot weather after a trip back from the Nurburgring last year. I used to see the temperature guage rise and then the engine would stop, leave it for a few minutes and she would start up again and somtimes do up to 20 miles before stopping again. I thought it was fuel, but after changing virtually everything came to the conclusion that it was related to the coil and HT leads. Fixed the coil to the wheel arch and replaced the dizzy cap and leads and it hasn't cut out since. Have a look at the engine running in the dark and see if you can see any arking. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jonny1970 Posted May 29, 2012 Report Share Posted May 29, 2012 I had a similar problem over the weekend. I went on a 60 mile jaunt in the hot sunshine and on return the pump (Bosch) started making a right old racket when i left the car idling for a couple of minutes, until the engine cut out completely. Starting it again was no problem, although within seconds the same thing happened. Hoping it was just a case of low fuel (I had less than a quarter of a tank following the trip) and 26 deg weather. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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