mikespain835 Posted February 2, 2012 Report Share Posted February 2, 2012 Hi everyone,I'm new here,been in spain for 27 years now and I'm restoring a 57 Tr3(not for 27 years,started in october),things are going quite well up to now,chassis and running gear done and painted,the bodywork repaired welded and first fit to chassis,came to put the windscreen on to see the fit ,and -problems-first of all the tenon plates seem to be missing but even without these,the stanchions fit and follow the contour of the bulkhead panel until the windsceen is introduced when it forces the stanchions apart and when screwed in,leaves the stanchions with a gap of nearly 1cm between the end of the curve of stanchion to the bulkhead paneland on the left hand side(sitting in the car)a gap of 5mm between the bottom of the windscreen surround and the stanchion,there appears to be no damage to the stanchions and no damage to the windsreen surround,almost as if the windscreen is too wide,anyone come across this problem before?and solution? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
foster461 Posted February 2, 2012 Report Share Posted February 2, 2012 Hi there and welcome. Did you have the windshield and frame apart ?. I assume so since you mention that the tenon plates are missing. The stanchions are pretty long so it doesnt take much in the way of misalignment during assembly or misssing tenons to throw the geometry off. Post some pictures so we can see what you have to work with. Re the resto, you really did all that since Oct 2011 ? Stan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mikespain835 Posted February 2, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2012 Hi again,I bought this as a rolling chassis the chassis was almost fitted up and the rest of the car in boxes,I have a very good panel beater that has replaced the floors bottoms of wings boot floor and various other sections that he has made up out of sheet steel making excellent repairs,now ready for sand blasting and then final repairs to small dents-he's one of what I call the old school-Anyway back to the screen-I have not had the screen out of the frame,and the tenon plates from what I can see from the parts book go between the frame and the stanchions,I will upload some ftos asap,thanks Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vivdownunder Posted February 3, 2012 Report Share Posted February 3, 2012 Are the Dzuz fastener windscreen mount plates on the body ?. They add about 5mm per side. Did the bottom rail of the surround fit back via its corner mount brackets ?. If so, the surround will be the correct width. Sandwiched between the surround and staunchions should be a chromed tenon plate and a 1mm rubber gasket (never shown in parts drawings). The assembled windscreen should slide neatly over the Dzuz fastener plates from the front of the car. Can you see anything that varies from the above as a guide to where the problem might be ?. Regards, Viv. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dave Larnder Posted February 3, 2012 Report Share Posted February 3, 2012 Hi Mike You have a PM from me Dave Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mikespain835 Posted February 3, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 3, 2012 Some more info, I have measured the distance from the bottom of the windsreen surround to the middle screw hole on both sides and there is a differance of 1.5 cm the left holes being higher,which will be the reason for the different gaps between the base of the screen and the stanchions also as it will be cock eyed this will force the stanchions apart somewhat -but screwing the screen in on one side that appears to be correct,and putting the other side in the correct position without the screws,the stanchions still seem not to follow the contour of the bulkhead very well. the only way I see to rectify the holes is to dismantle the frame and redrill the holes.Has anyone come across this difference of the spacing of the mounting holes between two sides before?still trying to work out how to upload the fotos-I'll get there! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BrianC Posted February 3, 2012 Report Share Posted February 3, 2012 Sandwiched between the surround and staunchions should be a chromed tenon plate and a 1mm rubber gasket (never shown in parts drawings). Yet again, I learn something new. I've dismantled 3 screen assemblies and never seen this gasket. Might explain why some unwary people crack their new screens when they tighten the screws fully without checking and adjusting the length to avoid contact with the glass. The extra 1mm might make all the difference. Might be worth looking at this thread: http://www.tr-register.co.uk/forums/index.php?showtopic=31496&st=0&p=233715&hl=stanchion&fromsearch=1&&do=findComment&comment=233715 Also, try searching for 'stanchion' (or 'staunchion' as some mistrype it ) - it's a constant source of problems. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mike Graham Posted February 7, 2012 Report Share Posted February 7, 2012 Never seen this rubber gasket either ... is it available from one of the parts suppliers or something that you make Viv? Cheers, Mike Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TR 2100 Posted February 7, 2012 Report Share Posted February 7, 2012 I fitted a gasket like this, very thin, to protect the paintwork, but this was never fitted originally. (AFAIK - enter Stuart!) AlanR Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted February 7, 2012 Report Share Posted February 7, 2012 (edited) The tenon gasket strip is virtually always missing, I believe it may well have been a piece of the original type of screen rubber as thats about the thickness. I just use a smear of non setting windscreen sealer between the frame/tenon plate/stanchion. Without it you will get water ingress between. Stanchion to frame screws must always be chosen carefully as failure to fit the correct ones will result in a cracked screen. When you have a set of them in your hand the longer pair go in the bottom to locate into the corner brackets, the other four shorter ones go in the upper holes. The other bit of rubber that is always missing is a small wedge that goes in the bottom of the stanchion where there is a groove routed in it just adjacent to the end of the lower rubber to scuttle, this is supposed to give a seal to the scuttle but again a sausage shape of DumDum will suffice. I had never come across a complete original one but had its presence confirmed by Mike Ellis. Stuart. Edited February 7, 2012 by stuart Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest ntc Posted February 7, 2012 Report Share Posted February 7, 2012 There is as Viv said a gasket the old ones was on my frame Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted February 7, 2012 Report Share Posted February 7, 2012 There is as Viv said a gasket the old ones was on my frame Yes but yours is a timewarp one Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Don Elliott Posted February 7, 2012 Report Share Posted February 7, 2012 As you all know, I bought my 1958 TR3A brand new. I never had any rubber seal between the stanchion, the thin chromed plate nor in between this and the chromed frame surrounding the glass. I remember having a gap, but this may have occured when the bonnet flew up against the tenax fasteners when it was not down safely during a trip to the Canadian Grand Prix in or about 1962. The bonnet flew off and this may have deformed the chrom surround. When I was restoring my TR from 1987 to 1990, the base of the stanchion left a gap between it and the slide plate where the Dzus attacments secure it to the skuttle. So my neighbour made (machined or carved) a spacer for this gap to fit behind the base as shown in the photo. I always had and still have the foam rubber pieces (mentioned above) - about a quarter of an inch square by about 2 inches long as seals behind the stanctions. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
billg Posted February 7, 2012 Report Share Posted February 7, 2012 Hi, I've just re-assembled and installed my refurbished screen on my TR3A and tackled most of these issues. As regards making things easier I made generous use of 2mm x 5mm self adhesive closed cell neoprene double glazing seal, and a roll of self amalgamating insulation rubber tape both inside one side of the internal frame (tape) and using the neoprene in the bottomof the lower frame channel. Also usedthe neoprene on the stanchion / frame seal surfaces and to cover the curved concave surface at the bottom of the stanchion... Looks to be leak free! Plus used the thin self amalgamating rubber tape on the Dzus plate to mating surface. Just had to loosen one body plate to achieve a strong sliding fit , very satisfying as it had taken me more than day to assemble the frame etc with three lots of rubber all of which seemed much harder than rubbers on previous cars. Morris Eight Tourer And MG VA Tickford. Now for the hardtop rubbers! And rear perspex window , scary?? Followed by the side screen frames reworked in novel way with 8m of 4mm alloy U channel to allow double sliding windows. Will post photos when completed Bill g Regards Bill G, North Berwick Quote Link to post Share on other sites
billg Posted February 7, 2012 Report Share Posted February 7, 2012 Hi, I've just re-assembled and installed my refurbished screen on my TR3A and tackled most of these issues. As regards making things easier I made generous use of 2mm x 5mm self adhesive closed cell neoprene double glazing seal, and a roll of self amalgamating insulation rubber tape both inside one side of the internal frame (tape) and using the neoprene in the bottomof the lower frame channel. Also usedthe neoprene on the stanchion / frame seal surfaces and to cover the curved concave surface at the bottom of the stanchion... Looks to be leak free! Plus used the thin self amalgamating rubber tape on the Dzus plate to mating surface. Just had to loosen one body plate to achieve a strong sliding fit , very satisfying as it had taken me more than day to assemble the frame etc with three lots of rubber all of which seemed much harder than rubbers on previous cars. Morris Eight Tourer And MG VA Tickford. Now for the hardtop rubbers! And rear perspex window , scary?? Followed by the side screen frames reworked in novel way with 8m of 4mm alloy U channel to allow double sliding windows. Will post photos when completed Bill g Regards Bill G, North Berwick Quote Link to post Share on other sites
billg Posted February 7, 2012 Report Share Posted February 7, 2012 Hi, I've just re-assembled and installed my refurbished screen on my TR3A and tackled most of these issues. As regards making things easier I made generous use of 2mm x 5mm self adhesive closed cell neoprene double glazing seal, and a roll of self amalgamating insulation rubber tape both inside one side of the internal frame (tape) and using the neoprene in the bottomof the lower frame channel. Also usedthe neoprene on the stanchion / frame seal surfaces and to cover the curved concave surface at the bottom of the stanchion... Looks to be leak free! Plus used the thin self amalgamating rubber tape on the Dzus plate to mating surface. Just had to loosen one body plate to achieve a strong sliding fit , very satisfying as it had taken me more than day to assemble the frame etc with three lots of rubber all of which seemed much harder than rubbers on previous cars. Morris Eight Tourer And MG VA Tickford. Now for the hardtop rubbers! And rear perspex window , scary?? Followed by the side screen frames reworked in novel way with 8m of 4mm alloy U channel to allow double sliding windows. Will post photos when completed Bill g Regards Bill G, North Berwick Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Don Elliott Posted February 7, 2012 Report Share Posted February 7, 2012 I have only once had a problem with leaks through any of the ¨leak points¨ mentioned above, but then I have to admit that over the last 21 summers of driving (108,000 mles), the top and sidecurtains have been up for only 3000 miles. We have lots of nice TR driving weather here in North America. The photo is from 2001 in the Rockies when I drove to VTR in Colorado. That trip of two weeks was 5250 miles. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vivdownunder Posted February 8, 2012 Report Share Posted February 8, 2012 Mike, like Stuart, I make new tenon gaskets from the roll of flat rubber strip they supply as a windscreen glass seal. It's useless for the purpose provided, as when bent over the glass in a U shape, it wrinkles up and won't go around the corners. I first saw the tenon gasket on my completely original short door TR2. But with windscreen glass renewal over the years and it being unavailable as a spare part, the gaskets are not seen on too many current cars. It's interesting that Don's car didn't have the tenon gaskets from brand new, yet my current 1958 car, TS33753-0, had them. Other than the factory running out of stock for a short while, that's yet another mystery lost in time. Regards, Viv. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted February 8, 2012 Report Share Posted February 8, 2012 Or someone on the line had just come back from his teabreak and forgot to fit them Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TR 2100 Posted February 8, 2012 Report Share Posted February 8, 2012 Or someone on the line had just come back from his teabreak and forgot to fit them Stuart. Previous posts don't seem to highlight the (possible) difference between the slide-on stanchions and the bolt-on variety. My two 3As were in the late 57-series. Bolt-on stanchions (even though the Parts Book or other records indicate otherwise) and I haven't seen any such gaskets before. Then again, Stuart has far wider experience of cars that are likely to be original. My two were, for the most part, but no way I can be sure about this gasket. AlanR Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rodbr Posted February 8, 2012 Report Share Posted February 8, 2012 (edited) My Tr2 was built in January 1954 and when I stripped the screen off there was as Stuart advises the rubberlike insert under the upright in the channel and what was like DUM DUM . There was no gasket fitted between uprights and screen. I have no reason to presume that the screen was not original as I have owned the car for nearly 40 years. IMHO it could be possible that there was a variance that was purely to take up the somewhat vague unifomity of the shell scuttle measurements. "Pack it out to fit lad they'll never notice." So much hand fettling of the early shell must have made precision fitting neigh on impossible. In the last year have split this early TR2 one and also my 59 3a one with no rubber fitted between the tenon plate and screen, go figure! Rgds Rod Edited February 8, 2012 by Rodbr Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TR24178 Posted February 8, 2012 Report Share Posted February 8, 2012 Help I do not seem to have the tenon plate, I have stanchion, zsus plate bolted to the body (should there be some body seal under this where it contacts the body?) and frame, what does the tenon plate do? is it to tuck the sidescreen behind? John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BrianC Posted February 8, 2012 Report Share Posted February 8, 2012 ...what does the tenon plate do? is it to tuck the sidescreen behind? Exactly that. If you can't buy a pair, they would be easy enough to replicate in brass and then chrome plate, or use stainless steel. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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