Rodbr Posted January 4, 2012 Report Share Posted January 4, 2012 I know there is an issue about the Lucas flasher unit and use of the 42 watt one, repro ones are total ****! Is there any issue about which flasher unit you use when fitting clear,red and amber LED bulbs. the significantly reduced load must surely help. Rgds and Happy new year to all. Rod Quote Link to post Share on other sites
foster461 Posted January 4, 2012 Report Share Posted January 4, 2012 I know there is an issue about the Lucas flasher unit and use of the 42 watt one, repro ones are total ****! Is there any issue about which flasher unit you use when fitting clear,red and amber LED bulbs. the significantly reduced load must surely help. Rgds and Happy new year to all. Rod Rod, if you fit LED flashers you will need to use a modern electronic flasher unit as the reduced current will not trigger the thermal flasher. The electronic units are more predictable than the thermal ones though the cadence and squence is slightly different. I think LED tail lamps and flashers are a big improvement but you need quality lamps, not cheap junk. Stan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
cvtrian Posted January 4, 2012 Report Share Posted January 4, 2012 Maybe Tony T can help here, but my understanding about LED's was that it's not about light output, more about directional visibility, and for stop/tail lamp applications, they are not suitable due to the fact that they point downwards rather than horizontally? I may be wrong, and if I am, switching over the stop and tail will be on the list - if they are available? On the subject of lighting on side screen cars, has anyone fitted Morris Minor type front side/indicator lamps (separate indicator lens in orange and sidelight in clear) instead of the joint white standard fittings? Ian Quote Link to post Share on other sites
foster461 Posted January 4, 2012 Report Share Posted January 4, 2012 Maybe Tony T can help here, but my understanding about LED's was that it's not about light output, more about directional visibility, and for stop/tail lamp applications, they are not suitable due to the fact that they point downwards rather than horizontally? I may be wrong, and if I am, switching over the stop and tail will be on the list - if they are available? On the subject of lighting on side screen cars, has anyone fitted Morris Minor type front side/indicator lamps (separate indicator lens in orange and sidelight in clear) instead of the joint white standard fittings? Ian LED's do have a different illumination profile to incandescent bulbs but I havent seen anything about pointing downwards. Many of us here in the US use the lamps from these guys http://www.litezupp.com/ and if you are following a few cars on a trip you can see which ones have the litezupp bulbs. I only use their stop/tail light bulbs in the TR6, I have not converted the indicators or front side lamps. Stan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
cvtrian Posted January 4, 2012 Report Share Posted January 4, 2012 (edited) LED's do have a different illumination profile to incandescent bulbs but I havent seen anything about pointing downwards. Many of us here in the US use the lamps from these guys http://www.litezupp.com/ and if you are following a few cars on a trip you can see which ones have the litezupp bulbs. I only use their stop/tail light bulbs in the TR6, I have not converted the indicators or front side lamps. Stan Hi Stan I stand to be corrected (and I hope I am) but as you know, TR6 rear light bulbs are oriented differently to side screen cars, with the bulbs horizontal so would provide the correct light direction for LEDs, i.e. rearwards, through their better designed reflectors. TR2/3/3a/3b stop and tail lamps are inclined and point downwards, with not much of a reflector behind them - only the baseplate, making LEDs unsuitable in this plane, pointing downwards as opposed to rearwards, as I understand it.............???? I would be interested in what to do with mixing and matching LED indicator bulbs at the rear, and what to do with the front ones as, on side screen cars they are integral to the sidelights..........although they do each point in the correct direction.............hence my enquiry about separating the functions to two different bulbs at the front. Thanks for the link, interesting stuff! Come on Tony T....... Ian Edited January 4, 2012 by cvtrian Quote Link to post Share on other sites
foster461 Posted January 4, 2012 Report Share Posted January 4, 2012 Hi Stan I stand to be corrected (and I hope I am) but as you know, TR6 rear light bulbs are oriented differently to side screen cars, with the bulbs horizontal so would provide the correct light direction for LEDs, i.e. rearwards, through their better designed reflectors. TR2/3/3a/3b stop and tail lamps are inclined and point downwards, with not much of a reflector behind them - only the baseplate, making LEDs unsuitable in this plane, pointing downwards as opposed to rearwards, as I understand it.............???? I would be interested in what to do with mixing and matching LED indicator bulbs at the rear, and what to do with the front ones as, on side screen cars they are integral to the sidelights..........although they do each point in the correct direction.............hence my enquiry about separating the functions to two different bulbs at the front. Thanks for the link, interesting stuff! Come on Tony T....... Ian I see your point Ian, if the TR3 lamps are not horizontal that might make a difference with the more directional LED light. I think with the large diameter litezupp LED's that would be less of an issue especially on the rear where the red glass lenses would tend to diffuse the light. I'll test that theory in about a year.. Stan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BlueTR3A-5EKT Posted January 4, 2012 Report Share Posted January 4, 2012 (edited) Hi Stan I stand to be corrected (and I hope I am) but as you know, TR6 rear light bulbs are oriented differently to side screen cars, with the bulbs horizontal so would provide the correct light direction for LEDs, i.e. rearwards, through their better designed reflectors. TR2/3/3a/3b stop and tail lamps are inclined and point downwards, with not much of a reflector behind them - only the baseplate, making LEDs unsuitable in this plane, pointing downwards as opposed to rearwards, as I understand it.............???? I would be interested in what to do with mixing and matching LED indicator bulbs at the rear, and what to do with the front ones as, on side screen cars they are integral to the sidelights..........although they do each point in the correct direction.............hence my enquiry about separating the functions to two different bulbs at the front. Thanks for the link, interesting stuff! Come on Tony T....... Ian I spent some time assembling LEDs to a piece of circuit board so I could mount them pointing toward the rear of the car in my TR3 rear lamps - Waste of time in my opinion. The light output was still insufficient to startle today's drivers who are continually dazzled by oncoming traffic with over bright and poorly aimed HID headlamps. Even fitting an LED bulb in the TR2 centre stop lamp does not improve the brightness as the LED type I used has a decreasing visibility when viewed 'off centre'. This is described as viewing angle in the spec sheets. Scientific test! I assembled 3 tail lamps and 3 centre stop lamps each with different bulb set ups, applied voltage and looked at them along the length of the garage. Sorry to say OE was best for brightness. I even doubled the LED qty in one lamp, but the lens of the lamps just diffused it. My main concern is to wake the morons up with visible brake lights, so I am embarking on a F1 style 'rain' lamp or flashing LED hazard unit that I can disguise in a TR2 centre stop lamp. More info when I have done something nice. Modern motorists are mesmerised by the 'cute little old car' and attempt to drive over it in their lorrybyfours! Cheers Peter W Edited January 4, 2012 by BlueTR3A-5EKT Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted January 4, 2012 Report Share Posted January 4, 2012 They do make a right angled bulb specifically for the purpose http://www.litezupp.com/content/1157-type-dual-filament-right-angle-red-12-volt-negative-ground-part-number-lr57rn Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
EdwinTiben Posted January 4, 2012 Report Share Posted January 4, 2012 They do make a right angled bulb specifically for the purpose http://www.litezupp.com/content/1157-type-dual-filament-right-angle-red-12-volt-negative-ground-part-number-lr57rn Stuart. Anyone with these lamps fitted? Do they light up more than the waxines on the back of my gt6 ? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Motorsport Mickey Posted January 4, 2012 Report Share Posted January 4, 2012 Maybe Tony T can help here, but my understanding about LED's was that it's not about light output, more about directional visibility, and for stop/tail lamp applications, they are not suitable due to the fact that they point downwards rather than horizontally? I may be wrong, and if I am, switching over the stop and tail will be on the list - if they are available? On the subject of lighting on side screen cars, has anyone fitted Morris Minor type front side/indicator lamps (separate indicator lens in orange and sidelight in clear) instead of the joint white standard fittings? Ian Ian, yes my TR3a had the Morris Minor front side/indicator lamps fitted and they worked well, didn't bother me they were from a Morris! The lights fitted onto the grill in the appropriate position as if made for it. Mick Richards Quote Link to post Share on other sites
billg Posted January 5, 2012 Report Share Posted January 5, 2012 I too have been pondering LEDs and also separating the side and flasher unit at the front of my 1959 TR3A. I'm thinking of fitting a small Tr4 White lens and rim with a small LED which has light emitters on 5 sides of cube, ie unidirectional .May have to make cust back for this as there is little depth behind the front grille outboard of the standard beehive lens which I thought I'd change to Amber. Some TR Rally cars had outboard front mounted sidelights on the wings, but this was to allow better placement is spot lamps. Most LEDS for indicators would need matching resistors as their load would not trigger the OEM thermal flasher. The other option was to buy Headlamps with pilot/sidelamps, but I rather fit the NOS tripods with halogen Bulbs. Making other road users know you there and having good indicators is important and I for one am happy to be non standard as the roads and traffic now are not as they were in the 1960'S Bill g Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tthomson Posted January 6, 2012 Report Share Posted January 6, 2012 Hi Guys, I've had a busy couple of weeks so apologies for not jumping in sooner. LEDs are fine for brake and stop lamps. For indicator lamps you need to ensure they have the right shape. (Multiple LEDs aligned on different axes) I have found a number of suppliers who provide LEDs at reasonable prices, but I certainly endorse the view that you need decent quality to get the results you need. As pointed out, mechanical flashers (as used for standard incandescent indicator lamps) work on the load current. LEDs only draw about a tenth of the current of incandescent lamps, so these flashers will not work properly (if at all) There are electronic flashers around, but most have simple electronics that drive relays that are permamently switching on and off even when the indicator is not active. The noise they create while not particularly loud, can be annoying, but they work well with LEDs. Some suppliers to look at: www.brightlightz.co.uk http://www.autobulbsdirect.co.uk/LED-Car-Bulbs-c-1337/ There are others. I will be running LEDs in my TR4A for Brake/stop and indicators. I have designed my own version of the electronic flasher that does not 'tick', but it has to be fully intergrated into the electrical system rather than just added on. Kind regards TT Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Trevor S Posted January 6, 2012 Report Share Posted January 6, 2012 Has anyone tried the 360 degree LED brake/side lights that are now avaiable ? Do they solve the problem of the bulb facing downwards on the 2/3? I have standard LED brake/side lights in the TR4 where the bulb is horizontal and they are a great improvement. so would like to do similar on my 2 if the 360 degree bulb is suitable. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Deggers Posted January 9, 2012 Report Share Posted January 9, 2012 I'm thinking of fitting a small Tr4 White lens and rim with a small LED which has light emitters on 5 sides of cube, ie unidirectional .May have to make cust back for this as there is little depth behind the front grille outboard of the standard beehive lens which I thought I'd change to Amber. Hi there Bill, I also have a '59 TR3A, and have recently been trying to find a way of incorporating amber indicator bulbs into the clear beehive sidelight lenses in the grille. I'm a bit reluctant to replace the clear lenses with amber ones as it is a very original looking car, and I don't really want to go down the "custom" route, or borrow alternative lenses from other cars if I can help it ... However, I am hoping I may have stumbled across a solution, with "Dual colour changing switchback" LEDs. These essentially consist of a small cluster of amber and white LEDs on a single bayonet bulb fitting. The light remains white while the sidelights are on, and then converts to a flashing amber light when your indicators are activated. As yet, I'm still in the "research" stage with these lights, and haven't actually tried them myself (nor have I found a supplier here in the UK, the majority of producers being based in America). Perhaps some of our fellow TR members in the US can shed a little light (apologies!) on whether these LEDs are worth a go? By way of demonstration, I found these few clips on Youtube earlier, which I hope will be of some interest: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5KyHiahL4k And here are a few links to US suppliers, which may prove useful: V-Leds.com Diode Dynamics.com Super Bright LEDs.com All the best, cheers Deggers. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
billg Posted January 9, 2012 Report Share Posted January 9, 2012 Hi Deggers, Thanks for the info looks to be the definitive solution forUK TR3a's!! Will investigate if I find a Uk source I'll pot it on the forum Kind regards Bill. G Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Deggers Posted January 9, 2012 Report Share Posted January 9, 2012 My pleasure Bill - it certainly looks to be the way to go for sidelight / indicator combos . . . . I'll be sure to keep the forum updated with any further info I find as well. Good luck, and cheers for now, Deggers Quote Link to post Share on other sites
cvtrian Posted January 9, 2012 Report Share Posted January 9, 2012 My pleasure Bill - it certainly looks to be the way to go for sidelight / indicator combos . . . . I'll be sure to keep the forum updated with any further info I find as well. Good luck, and cheers for now, Deggers Could be the answer, but does anyone know what the situation is here in the UK, MOT/legal, regarding the front sidelights being turned off when the indicator is operating? Ideal solution would be one single "bulb" with white LED for sidelight, and orange for indicator as a direct replacement for the dual filament variety (understanding the need to change the flasher unit to LED compatible with LED indicator bulbs at the rear) I have recently bought two Morris Minor front sidelight/indicator units and compared them with the standard TR fare, and they are significantly larger, although can easily be made to fit. Not sure they would look correct though............but does provide a solution. Ian Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted January 9, 2012 Report Share Posted January 9, 2012 You do still have the option to include the sidelight in the headlamp and fit orange single filiment bulbs/holders with white lens down for indicators. Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fireman049 Posted January 9, 2012 Report Share Posted January 9, 2012 I've converted my front sidelights into amber indicators and fitted the sidelights into the headlamps. I find that the sidelights in the headlamps gives far better illumination when parked (Large reflector) than the small sidelights. Tom. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
brydon Posted January 9, 2012 Report Share Posted January 9, 2012 Hi I have fitted stop /tail multi directional LED lamps from Bernard Bryant to the rear of my son's MK3 Spitfire with excellent results, I understand from Bernard LED lamps are polarity sensitive, and currently only available in Negative Earth configuration from his supplier. Has anyone found a source of high quality, multi directional, Positive Earth red stop / tail LED lamps? Kind regards Andrew Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Deggers Posted January 9, 2012 Report Share Posted January 9, 2012 Could be the answer, but does anyone know what the situation is here in the UK, MOT/legal, regarding the front sidelights being turned off when the indicator is operating? Ian Hi Ian, To be honest, I'm not really sure how the law stands regarding the sidelights being turned off . . . However, fear thee not! The LED indicator shown in the above clip is a "Type 2 Dual Switchback" LED ... but it appears the US suppliers also stock a "Type 1" version, which leaves the sidelight on permanently - as seen here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZNR9TkyOF8 As far as I can tell, it looks to be a pretty straight forward swap from bayonet halogen bulbs to bayonet LED (with an added resistor or electronic flasher to avoid "hyperblink"). I'm still doing my research into this whole LED option - but I have to admit ... the more I look, the more I'm tempted! All the best, cheers, Deggers Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 Some info on positive earth flasher units for LED`s here http://www.litezupp.com/content/know-and-understand-your-flasher-0 and these guy`s also do positve earth LED`s though not multi directional as yet.http://www.litezupp.com/products Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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