Paul Harvey Posted October 19, 2011 Report Share Posted October 19, 2011 Guys, I've got a dilemma and need some advice. I bought my 1966 TR4A with wire wheels and overdrive in 1976 for £600 and had loads of fun with it as a student. Started restoring it myself, ran out of time starting my own business, so sent it to Dee & Gee in Birmingham (Eddie Neale) and spent £12,000 having it properly sorted. Body off etc. Did a couple of concours (boring) and then just used the car as the makers intended. Took it to the International at Malvern a few years ago asking £10k to sell it and got lots of compliments, lots of expert mutterings, and no bids so decided to keep it. TR had a couple of niggling problems (overheating, intermittent overdrive) so last year I got a local guy to sort these out. Unfortunately we obviously got it wrong because the overdrive blew up and the car has languished in my garage ever since. Fortunate enough to afford other sports cars so always had a newer, faster model alongside. Ended up with Ferrari 550 Maranello (Lifetime Ambition) so the TR never really gets a look in anyway. So I guess I ought to just sell the TR and keep the 550 (bought for £50k 4 years ago and still worth £45k.) Except that it's really too fast for UK roads, my wife won't get in it (never mind drive me home when I'm pissed), my 13 year old daughter thinks the TR is way cooler (soft top!) and all my motoring memories are based on the underpowered, understeering, underacoverinmyworkshop TR4! So I'm tempted to go again with the TR and have it properly sorted using the latest upgrades to make it daily usable and maybe even safe enough to let my daughter drive when she's old enough. Except a quick look on the Revington upgrade list goes - Engine rebuild £3k short, £6k full, £7k fast, Gearbox & Overdrive rebuild £1500, Integrated Suspension Pack £2k. All plus fitting. So we're at £10k to get going before the bodywork, interior, wheels, trim, etc. So let's agree £20k for a decent handling, resonably fast, clean & tidy car that should see me out. Or probably £30k if I get carried away. Which I could fund by selling the 550. SO THE MILLION DOLLAR QUESTION(S) - Who do I trust to do the work, how much do I spend and on what, AND, what's the car worth at the end? Or should I just accept that I'm a spoiled brat and sell the TR? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tr61972 Posted October 19, 2011 Report Share Posted October 19, 2011 tim willis at willow triumph at darlington look at his web page my tr6 is on Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Steve R Posted October 19, 2011 Report Share Posted October 19, 2011 (edited) Keep it, it's part of your history and i assume you don't need the 10k, overheating and an overdrive problem don't sound like too much trouble, not enough to start a bells and whistles rebuild anyway. There will allways be a TR sized hole in your heart if you sell. Steve Edited October 19, 2011 by Steve R Quote Link to post Share on other sites
david johnson Posted October 19, 2011 Report Share Posted October 19, 2011 Why not do the work yourself, with the help of the perhaps more expert TR club members. Save yourself a fortune and get not just a professional job, but something better. Do not sell the 550 which at that value is a bargain. David Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ashley James Posted October 19, 2011 Report Share Posted October 19, 2011 (edited) We get so many people visiting us to see the work being done on their old classics in modern super cars and most admit they don't really enjoy them because they are just too fast. Off the motorway most traffic is doing forty and across country trips are usually done at a 25 mph average and on motorways, about 50, so what's the point in having anything faster than a nicely sorted and original TR4. I sold my bike because it was miles too fast for the UK, although excellent for touring less crowded France. Owners also say that they arrive at all the corners too quickly if they're lucky enough to find an empty road. Most are happier driving something old and less able at a manageable speed. In the fifties road testers were averaging between 40-50 across country in the faster cars of the day and in the sixties I could get from near Stroud in Glos to Hanger Lane in a Ford Prefect in two hours. Now I'd struggle to do that on a bike! In a world of the deadly slow and frustrating fellow motorist, an old TR with the hood down attracts smiles and friendly faces and it's worth it for that IMO. Ash Edited October 19, 2011 by Ashley James Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted October 19, 2011 Report Share Posted October 19, 2011 Hi Paul, what part of the country are you in. Protek in Walligford (Oxford) are good and reasonable price. If you park the TR and the Ferrari together in a touristy type place the tourists will look at your TR in detail and probably comment - I or my dad had one of these. The Ferrari will be overlooked - no contest. Why go for the fast road engine - there are no fast roads (not many anyway). What is wrong with the O/D. If the case is OK then £300-400 should sort it properly. Keep it and keep smiling. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Paul Harvey Posted October 19, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2011 Guys - thanks for your immediate and informative feedback. I shall research the peolpe you've recommended. I'll also take on board your 'meaning of life' appraisals. Please keep the feedback coming as I want to do the right think by the car I 'pulled' my wife in, 35 years ago! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Paul Harvey Posted October 19, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2011 tim willis at willow triumph at darlington look at his web page my tr6 is on TR61972 - TR6 @ Willow looks great - what sort of budget did you give them? (sounds a bit less rude than 'so how much did that lot cost!) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Paul Harvey Posted October 19, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2011 Hi Paul, what part of the country are you in. Protek in Walligford (Oxford) are good and reasonable price. If you park the TR and the Ferrari together in a touristy type place the tourists will look at your TR in detail and probably comment - I or my dad had one of these. The Ferrari will be overlooked - no contest. Why go for the fast road engine - there are no fast roads (not many anyway). What is wrong with the O/D. If the case is OK then £300-400 should sort it properly. Keep it and keep smiling. Roger I'm in Warwickshire so Protek are in reach. Are they general restorers or overdrive specialists. If I just decide to do the overdrive I was recommended to use Peter Eggington but then it seemed while the unit was out.......................... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted October 19, 2011 Report Share Posted October 19, 2011 As long as you have the room and a reasonable budget then definitely keep the TR Forget the astronomic prices that you have already quoted most of it can be sorted out for far cheaper than that. TR4 lumps are pretty bomb proof and can be made to go well without major expense.Standard suspension with a new set of polybushes and careful setting up will sort out the handling and a standard braking system is perfectly good enough even for the "hooligans" amongst us. Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
allenforster Posted October 19, 2011 Report Share Posted October 19, 2011 Hello Paul, If you don't already know them then go along to your local TR Register Group (probably Cotswold Vale). There are many very knowledgeable and helpful members of Cotswold Vale group who will assist you in getting a good job done on a reasonable budget. Hopefully you will enjoy doing some of the work yourself and the car will then mean even more to you. Allen Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted October 19, 2011 Report Share Posted October 19, 2011 Hi Paul, Protek are all round good car people - bodywork, engines etc. They have been doing TR's for many moons now and know them very well. A couple of year ago, Glen, the proprietor built a very tasty TR3S - very nice detailing. An overdrive shouldn't give them a problem Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ashley James Posted October 19, 2011 Report Share Posted October 19, 2011 I agree with Stuart, he's talking sense as always and Roger is right Protek have a good name for rebuilds. Ash Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SuzanneH Posted October 19, 2011 Report Share Posted October 19, 2011 Guys - thanks for your immediate and informative feedback. I shall research the peolpe you've recommended. I'll also take on board your 'meaning of life' appraisals. Please keep the feedback coming as I want to do the right think by the car I 'pulled' my wife in, 35 years ago! Don't sell it, this is the same story as Rogers and mine. Roger sold his TR4A when we were getting married, to add to the deposit for a house, and I begged him not to as he was only going to get £240.00 for it. That was in 1975 and it took us until December 1991 to buy the remains of another that took 7 years to restore from the ground up. During which time our son outgrew fitting in the TR with us, he was 10 at the stat of the rebuild and 17/18 at the end. See what your wife feels about the TR and if she is likely to go out in it with you? Your daughter obviously loves it. It would be a great shame to sell it and then the whole family regret it. They are such great fun and conversation openers everyone loves them and you can visibly see, as you are driving along when you have made someones day their faces just light up with a huge smile. I say don't do it! Have fun! Sue (Roger in above posts wife) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Chris59 Posted October 19, 2011 Report Share Posted October 19, 2011 (edited) Paul, all I can say is : if I had the oppportunity to swap my TR4IRS or Rivet (see my avatar) for a 550 (economical value aside), I would keep my TR. In other words, I know that any Ferrari or any other so called "supercars" would be able to bring me as much pleasure than my TRs. Chris. Edited October 19, 2011 by Chris59 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Paul Harvey Posted October 19, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2011 Right then - I'm keeping the TR so the family don't leave me and I'm keeping the 550 because I'd be a fool to sell it. So I just need to find the cash to fix up the TR. Or something. Maybe I'll just sort the overdrive and get back to carrying a tool kit in the boot like I used to at Medical School (but that's another story...) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mark1965TR4aBRG Posted October 21, 2011 Report Share Posted October 21, 2011 Paul - sounds like you're a lucky sod and that life's probably alright if you have this as a dilema!! Seriously though - my kids (17 & 15) think the 4a is pretty cool and certainly out cools most modern numbers. For sure it's not as fast, but ragging the 4a is rather more fun than doing silly speeds in modern stuff. Reminds me of trying to keep my first Yamaha 350LC on the road as it tank slapped everywhere and was just as much if not more fun that the modern superbikes I've been riding recently. Keep the 4a and fix it up yourself or send it to TRGB (01487 842168) who will do a sterling job and not for the figures you've mentioned either. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ianc Posted October 22, 2011 Report Share Posted October 22, 2011 The order in which you upgrade is important. If the car is made quicker (modified engine) but otherwise unchanged, you will frighten yourself! First upgrade the handling. If you talk to Neil (who has many years of competition experience and is still exceedingly competitive - see Alec Pringle's report on the recent Snetterton relay race, for example), you will have a logical upgrade path from standard to wherever you want finish, spread over whatever time span you think you can afford. That's important, as dead ends and re-working cost money. And there's nothing to stop you tackling major parts of the work yourself. Ian Cornish Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Kiwifrog Posted October 23, 2011 Report Share Posted October 23, 2011 Get it back on the road and drive it, and see what upgrades you need/want to make after you have got a few miles back under your belt. Hoping behind the wheel of an older car is always a bit of a shock at first but then you get used to it and renember why you drive them in the first place. Drive it till you blow up the engine then do the upgrades cause you have to rebuild the engine anyway, if you dont blow up the engine then you dont need any upgrades Cheers Alan Who tried for 18 Months to blow up an MGB by constantly reving it to 6500rpm in every gear except reverse and couldn't so sold it instead Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Paul Harvey Posted October 23, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 23, 2011 Guys - your feedback and advice are amazing. I've already talked (following an introduction) to the legendary Pete Cox who I used to call on at Longbridge in the late '70s when I was first trying to rebuild the 4A. Found the receipt (£85) from when he first 'rebuilt' my gearbox and overdrive in 1980. He didn't seem that impressed when I suggested I had a Warranty claim, but he agreed to help me nonetheless. Also had great recommendations for the other problems and I'm going to get back on the road and drive. All in all, it's been really helpful and motivating to be reminded of the passion and fun involved with classic cars. Any more advice welcome - the wife and daughter also seem quite pleased I'm falling back in love with the old girl! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gaz2trs Posted October 23, 2011 Report Share Posted October 23, 2011 tr is in your blood i feel so keep it mod it and drive it nice to able to have a couple of differant makes of cars gary Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Westy Posted October 24, 2011 Report Share Posted October 24, 2011 By "old girl" presumably you mean the car?! Good to see Peter Cox mentioned again as I have been recommended to him for gearbox overhaul. I was 6 years without a TR while kids were growing up (now 6 and 8) and though scary at first, soon started to relax and stop wondering when (not if) it was going to break down. Parking the car at work among the boring exec saloons brings the enthusiasts out of the woodwork. Also, no road tax, cheap insurance and with the support and advice of TR bloggers - you get fun, practical motoring. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Paul Harvey Posted October 27, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 27, 2011 Update Guys, Pete Cox is sorting the overdrive and gearbox. He recommended someone local to put the car back together, service EVERYTHING, and suss out what might need sorting in future. Work is already in progress and I'll see the car for further discussion next week. When I've got an itch etc. so I bought the Roger Williams book and bored the wife rigid reading it intensely. So now I've wised up (maybe?) and got a new wish list which I've sent to my new local friend (I hope he turns out ot be a friend!) You are all probably bored by now but in case anyone wants to comment (various people said I should post updates!) the list goes as follows: Check all chassis to ensure relevant strengthening has been done. Full service and check everything. Handling upgrades budget £1500 Braking upgrades budget £1000 Ignition upgrades budget £500 Wiring & lighting upgrades budget £300 Gearbox & Overdrive rebuild & upgrade release system Engine & performance upgrades only after discussion of current engine condition Parts I've allowed for are highlighted below along with other possible stuff for discussion or later. Moss Superpro complete car bush set £264 Rear suspension - Moss Telescopic + Koni £550 (Upgraded driveshafts & hubs £784) Adjustable trailing arm bracket £150 (on EBay now @ £50) ?anti roll bar(s)? ?front suspension? Hi-Spec Motorsport billet differential piston calipers & 285mm dial 22mm ventilated discs. £610 + stainless braided hoses throughout brakes. Handbrake extenders & redrill handbrake lever Thin belt conversion £150 + alternator/loom £85 +£31 (-ve earth?) Breakerless ignition Ignitor? Lumenition £150 (£270 performance, £200 pertronix): £300 123-ignition + electronic tachometer drive (not from Moss?) New 8 way fuse box/supplementary harness Quad optic sealed headlights w Xenon bulbs (pilot?) £50/100 + relay kit £50 + ?rims £40 Annular hydraulic cylinder release bearing on clutch (or Moss RHP bearing) Gearbox layshaft bearings Moss plastic gearbox tunnel £120 Racetorations 2pc gearbox cover £165 Battery tray liner £35 (Moss heater upgrade £520) MotoLita 15" dished steering wheel w centre hub Moss £150 Hood £250 vinyl, £350 double duck, £450 mohair Stainless extractor exhaust manifold £250 ?twin stainless sports exhaust? phoenix manifold + twin exhaust £700 Camshaft//pistons&liners/crankshaft&seals/gas flow head Carpet set blue deluxe £300 under felt set £85 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mark1965TR4aBRG Posted October 27, 2011 Report Share Posted October 27, 2011 (edited) Suggest again you call TRGB and save yourself some £'s in the process. I've done quite a few of the above and didn't pay anywhere near your figures, alhough I did all the work - much more rewarding. Edited October 27, 2011 by Mark1965TR4aBRG Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bully Posted October 28, 2011 Report Share Posted October 28, 2011 Hi Paul, I brought my TR4A way back in 1994, and drove it for ages. 5 years ago, I asked a friend to rebuild it for me. I made a long list of everything I wanted to do, body off respray, engine rebuild, suspension upgrade, brakes upgrade, leather interior, chasis blast and powder coat, the works. Cost me £20K, and the car is valued at £25K. The money is immaterial, as is the value. I have no intention of selling. If you fancy a drive out one day, come down to Gloucestershire and a Glavon meet, and I will show you the car and introduce you to Eric Mobley who did the rebuild. There are some photos too on the Glavon website , so have a look. Cheers Bully Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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