Jack Horner Posted July 24, 2011 Report Share Posted July 24, 2011 After having my radiator repaired twice allready for leaking around the filler stem, I am considering fitting a new one, as it has just started to leak again. Looking around Rimmers do one for £303 including VAT, but it looks to have the starter handle hole. Has anyone purchased a new radiator lately and what sort of price did you pay. For anyone who has fit an alloy one, do you think paying the extra was worth it. Totally fed up of taking the front off of this thing, I am off to look for a 2CV Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Menno van Rij Posted July 24, 2011 Report Share Posted July 24, 2011 Totally fed up of taking the front off of this thing, I am off to look for a 2CV Just wait 'till you have to overhaul the front drum brakes on an old 2CV... The spot where the filler neck meets the radiator is prone to crack (as you know). I would suggest that you replace the radiator: endless repairing of the same spot/aera isn't helping! I've not opted for a alloy rad. Personally, I don't think that an alloy rad is that much better. An upgrade that's worthwhile is ditching the starter hole! The radiator matrix under and above the hole doesn't work, since there's no flow at that point. Ditching the starter hole adds about 20% effective cooling to the rad. Menno Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pfenlon Posted July 24, 2011 Report Share Posted July 24, 2011 Jack the Rad on my TR4 has no neck, its the same engine so maybe the same rad would fit ? Others more in the know will offer their advice I'm sure, it wouldnt be "original" but so what. Menno this 20% reduction in cooling surely is a myth, I havent counted the tubes through the rad, but I dont think 20% of them can possibly be blocked off due to the starter handle Hole. It would have to be 60cm square. But as usual what do I know. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bob Smith Posted July 24, 2011 Report Share Posted July 24, 2011 I had the radiator on my 3 repaired by Serck and they did a super job - been in 4 years now with no problems at all. Dispensed with the starting handle hole at the same time - which allows extra cooling. Wouldn't buy new item and certainly not an aluminium version - waste of money in my opinion. Serck must have a branch local to you mine took about 3 weeks to recore. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted July 25, 2011 Report Share Posted July 25, 2011 Jack the Rad on my TR4 has no neck, its the same engine so maybe the same rad would fit ? Others more in the know will offer their advice I'm sure, it wouldnt be "original" but so what. Menno this 20% reduction in cooling surely is a myth, I havent counted the tubes through the rad, but I dont think 20% of them can possibly be blocked off due to the starter handle Hole. It would have to be 60cm square. But as usual what do I know. TR4 one is a different height. Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
John390 Posted July 25, 2011 Report Share Posted July 25, 2011 I understood that early TR4's had the same radiator with the filler extention as sidescreen cars. Although mine is a later TR4 a PO has fitted one of these rad's to it. It's been fine for 25 years! Cheers John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Menno van Rij Posted July 25, 2011 Report Share Posted July 25, 2011 (edited) Menno this 20% reduction in cooling surely is a myth, I havent counted the tubes through the rad, but I dont think 20% of them can possibly be blocked off due to the starter handle Hole. Perhaps you´re right, I got my ´wisdom´ from Roger William´s How To Improve TR2/4A as he writes on page 99 (pic 11-6): As you can see, the insertion of the starter handle hole closes off at least four of twenty vertical water passages, and is, therefore, best omitted when you next re-core you radiator. That's how I came up with my 20% reduction in cooling. Perhaps I should have added the word 'capacity'. But again, my knowledge is based on what I've read. I never experienced the difference between a radiator with or without the starter handle hole: I've always driven a TR with a restored radiator, without the starter handle hole. And my car's engine stays cool no matter what conditions: traffic jams, hot weather etc. Menno Edited July 25, 2011 by Menno van Rij Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vivdownunder Posted July 25, 2011 Report Share Posted July 25, 2011 Even if a later TR4 radiator without an extension neck fitted a sidescreen car, the filler cap would be tucked away under the apron. You'd need a very strange shaped watering can for a top up. Viv. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ian Vincent Posted July 25, 2011 Report Share Posted July 25, 2011 Menno this 20% reduction in cooling surely is a myth, I havent counted the tubes through the rad, but I dont think 20% of them can possibly be blocked off due to the starter handle Hole. It would have to be 60cm square. But as usual what do I know. Pete, I don't think the area of the starter hole has anything to do with it. Without a through flow route from top to bottom of the rad, no water can circulate through the affected tubes. This means that it is the relative width of the hole vis-a-vis the overall width of the rad which determines how much cooling effect is lost. When I had my radiator re-cored I told them not to bother with the starter handle hole so I can't go and measure my car but it wouldn't surprise me to find that it isn't far off 20% of the vertical tubes would have been blocked by the Starter Handle hole. Rgds Ian PS I'm not claiming to know anything either. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jack Horner Posted July 28, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 28, 2011 The original radiator has 20 tubes and 4 lost to the starter handle hole, hence 20%. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Herald948 Posted July 28, 2011 Report Share Posted July 28, 2011 The original radiator has 20 tubes and 4 lost to the starter handle hole, hence 20%. I admit I've been a bit curious about this for years. I do realize that, due to the hole for the starter handle, coolant obviously cannot flow all the way up (down, whatever) those four tubes. However, are those four tubes also blocked off at the top and bottom, or can they still hold coolant even if it doesn't "circulate"? If they are NOT blocked off top and bottom, seems to me that there must be some movement of coolant within those tubes? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
alanh Posted July 28, 2011 Report Share Posted July 28, 2011 i may be dreaming this, but i seem to recall reference to 2 sorts of starting handle hole - dry and wet. the wet one is formed of a square section tube around the hole, so there would be water circulation between the top and bottom around the hole, as it were, if anyone understands that clumsy description. the dry one is blocked. alan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pfenlon Posted July 28, 2011 Report Share Posted July 28, 2011 Both the rads on my TR2 and TR4 stand just under 20" ignoring the long neck, from the mounting point so it would fit if a 4" hole was cut into the apron to fill it!!!!! The TR2 rad has 72 full tubes and 18 tubes cut off at the top before going into the top reservoir. therefore 72 + 18 = 90, and 5 X 18=90, so 20% is in fact lost, and I was wrong again. This last happened in 1958 of course. Apologies to Menno, but a BIG thanks to Pogo today for the loan of his original TR2 grille, without which I could not have bent my TR2 apron straight again, Top man. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Menno van Rij Posted July 28, 2011 Report Share Posted July 28, 2011 (edited) This last happened in 1958 of course Funny! Made me laugh loud! (I wanted to use an emoticon, but I know you can't stand them!) Menno Edited July 28, 2011 by Menno van Rij Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ians Posted July 28, 2011 Report Share Posted July 28, 2011 (edited) Menno My 2CV had inboard front disc brakes! Pretty advanced for its day! Very easy access But getting to the points is a real bugger. Ian Edited July 28, 2011 by ians Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Menno van Rij Posted July 28, 2011 Report Share Posted July 28, 2011 (edited) Menno My 2CV had inboard front disc brakes! Pretty advanced for its day! Very easy access But getting to the points is a real bugger. Ian Pretty off topic here: I had an early 70s Citroen Dyane back in the late 70s when I was a student. My Citroen had inboard front drum brakes... And the brake cylinders started to leak. Let's say that the roadhandling was 'interesting' every time I stepped on the brakes. Together with my father, I've dismantled the whole front end to get these drums off! And I remember that it was pretty difficult to set the timing properly. No wonder that the inventor of 123ignition originally designed this dizzy for his 2CV! Back on topic: There's still the unanswered question of the alloy rad. Personally, I wouldn't bother and keep it original. Alloy rads are lighter and it appears that alloy rads cool better (almost all modern rads are made of alloy for those reasons). I'm only afraid that the original problem of hair line cracks between the radiator and the neck will also appear on alloy radiators for the TR. Does anyone know about a improved design (e.g. a supporting bracket under the neck? Menno Edited July 29, 2011 by Menno van Rij Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vivdownunder Posted July 29, 2011 Report Share Posted July 29, 2011 Menno, I had the bonnet on the 3A up this morning and the extension neck on the radiator has a solid support bracket. It's made from 1" x 1/8" metal strap with a long leg bronzed to the thermo housing side of the neck. The other end is bronzed to the top header tank near the coolant inlet. I can't recall it being shown in radiator spare parts drawings and I've overlooked checking with other cars to see if it's original or not. At the time this radiator was installed I was rebuilding an early and a late 3A - can't recall which radiator went in which car. Does anyone else have a support bracket on the inside of their radiator's extension neck ?. Doubtless it's there to overcome the common problem of the neck cracking at the header tank. Often that's due to leaning on the extension; pressing down too hard when replacing the cap, or general road vibration. Viv. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Menno van Rij Posted July 29, 2011 Report Share Posted July 29, 2011 It's made from 1" x 1/8" metal strap with a long leg bronzed to the thermo housing side of the neck. The other end is bronzed to the top header tank near the coolant inlet. I can't recall it being shown in radiator spare parts drawings and I've overlooked checking with other cars to see if it's original or not. That's exactly what I mean! Menno Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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