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Tr3a rear crank oil seal....


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  • 2 weeks later...
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  • 3 months later...

What a momentous day thus far.

 

My Marx Oil seal has arrived from the Roadster Factory,

they have had problems with sourcing the cores hence the delays.

 

Albert from Trf has been good keeping me advised as things progressed

 

So here it is

DSC01569.jpg

 

DSC01571.jpg

 

DSC01570.jpg

 

Cheers

Guy

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What a momentous day thus far.

 

My Marx Oil seal has arrived from the Roadster Factory,

they have had problems with sourcing the cores hence the delays.

 

Albert from Trf has been good keeping me advised as things progressed

 

So here it is

 

 

 

 

 

 

Cheers

Guy

 

 

Progress Guy. So is that the only thing that was stopping you from reassembling the engine ?

 

Stan

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Progress Guy. So is that the only thing that was stopping you from reassembling the engine ?

 

Stan

 

 

Hi Stan.

 

The rear crank leak was the reason i took the engine apart. Prudent also i thought to change the bearings

whilst the bottom is out. I have a replacement set of Mains Glacier bearings STD, however Moss

had run out of Glacier Big End STD, so i am waiting for those, eta in the next couple of weeks.

 

So when they arrive its full steam ahead, i think i have the majority of parts to

complete to get on the road.

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Hi Stan.

 

The rear crank leak was the reason i took the engine apart. Prudent also i thought to change the bearings

whilst the bottom is out. I have a replacement set of Mains Glacier bearings STD, however Moss

had run out of Glacier Big End STD, so i am waiting for those, eta in the next couple of weeks.

 

So when they arrive its full steam ahead, i think i have the majority of parts to

complete to get on the road.

 

 

Well keep us informed.. my block is still at the machine shop and I wont be reassembling for some time (months/years) but it will be my first wet liner engine and I also have the same rear oil seal kit and I'm looking forward to seeing your progress.

 

Stan

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  • 4 weeks later...

Well i have finaly fitted the Marx Seal which i got from TRF.

 

It was fiddly, but not as had as i had thought it was going to be.

 

I followed the instructions as posted on the 4 post in this thread, and also the Article in TRAction 252, and had all items i would require layed out ready,

bit like an operating theatre.

 

Do make sure that the hole in the seal and bearing cap is free of any sealant you may use, i cleaned it out with an ear plug

cleaner thing followed by a cable of correct size, could just use compressed air. Also that the slot you cut in the viton seal (see Traction252), lines up with the ally

casing. I put a pen mark on the casing and also the crank end, so i could be sure it all lined up.

 

Bottom end is back together now, sump to go on then the front plate etc.

 

All going to plan.

 

The proof on this seal, or rather how well i have fitted it will be when i get it all running.

 

Cheers

Guy

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  • 1 year later...

I just got around to starting the Marx seal install today. The first thing that I notice is that Christian's current instructions dont mention making a cut in the seal.

 

http://www.tr4-racing.de/download/splitseal.pdf

 

So I wonder what to make of that. Did Christian never require/recommend that and someone else made that part up or is the current seal different and doesnt need the slot cutting ?

 

It is also not clear to me if all of the required mods were made to the supplied housing or only the machining for the seal was done and I'm supposed to do the rest.

 

Putting this on hold pending further research.

 

Stan

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I recently received my Mad Marx oil seal conversion. My lip seal is already cut.

There is a similar conversion for E-type Jaguars and the instruction notes state that the lip seal should be superglued together once fitted to the carankshaft which I will do to the TR seal.

 

Tom.

Edited by Fireman049
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Stan

 

Have you looked at Tr Action 252

 

Cheers

Guy

 

Yes Guy, that is the source of my question, why does that article differ from Christians own instructions regarding cutting a slot in the seal ?

 

BTW Guy, did you have to enlarge the housing mounting holes to allow it to move and when you centered it, did it grip the alignment mandrel or was the mandrel loose in the housing once you had tapped the halves of the housing together ?

 

Stan

Edited by foster461
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I recently received my Mad Marx oil seal conversion. My lip seal is already cut.

There is a similar conversion for E-type Jaguars and the instruction notes state that the lip seal should be superglued together once fitted to the carankshaft which I will do to the TR seal.

 

Tom.

 

Interesting Tom. It seems that the kit supplied along with the instructions continues to evolve.

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Heres the cut

 

I asked the author of the Traction 252 article to send me an enlargement of the cut

 

Photo from Bob Streepy

 

DSCN1779_zps291174c8.jpg

 

 

Cheers

Guy

 

i must be getting old it all seems such a long time ago :mellow:

Edited by Jersey Royal
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When I said that my seal was cut it isn't as shown in the illustration from TRaction 252. It is cut so that it can be fitted over the crankshaft flange. I machined the drain hole in the carrier so that the seal doesn't block it when fitted.

 

Tom.

Edited by Fireman049
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When I said that my seal was cut it isn't as shown in the illustration from TRaction 252. It is cut so that it can be fitted over the crankshaft flange. I machined the drain hole in the carrier so that the seal doesn't block it when fitted.

 

Tom.

 

Tom, I believe you have spotted the reason why the most recent instructions dont mention cutting a slot in the seal. Instead the instructions say to enlarge the drain hole so the seal cannot block it. If you look at the picture in Christians description you can see he gets well into the vertical wall of the carrier.

 

Here's the text from those instructions:

 

"The draining hole of the aluminum seal will be blocked by the new lip seal so you need to
enlarge the draining area as shown. Use a press drill and a high speed grinder with cutting
tools to do that job. Take care not to damage scroll and don’t grind through the sidewall or a
bad leak might occur".
The guys that wrote the VTR article (from which the TR Action article was taken) did not modify the drain in the holder, they went for the slot in the seal instead.
I dont think it would do any signifact harm to cut the slot in the seal even with the modified holder but it should not be needed if you have the enlarged drain hole.
Stan
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Stan

 

When I fitted Christians seal to my car I modified the seal carrier myself witch also included enlarging the drain hole rather than cutting the seal. The instructions do state to make sure the split on the seal is at the top and to use some silicone sealer on the split, I like tom used superglue as it seemed easier to make sure that it actually got in the split. Dont make the same mistake I did and try and stretch the seal sping over the end of the crank or you will damage it. You have to split the spring as stated in the instructions.

 

http://www.tr4-racing.de/download/splitseal.pdf

 

I have had my engine running for about 30 minutes in total and it is so far oil tight.

 

Cheers

 

Alan,

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Heres some scans of a grubby Tr Action 252 article

 

img001_zps89edb018.jpg

 

img002_zps5de8177c.jpg

 

img003_zpsd852b9be.jpg

 

img004_zpsb34160c2.jpg

 

I think the important thing is to ensure that when the seal is trial fitted to the aluminium casing it does not obscure the

hole. Its also important that the seal casing are correctly installed using the mandrel.

 

I have only done 100 miles thus far and have not spotted any leak.

 

Cheers

GUY

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I think the important thing is to ensure that when the seal is trial fitted to the aluminium casing it does not obscure the

hole. Its also important that the seal casing are correctly installed using the mandrel.

 

Agreed Guy. Thanks everyone for the very useful discussion that I'm sure the folks that tackle this in the future will benefit from.

 

Stan

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  • 2 weeks later...

Out of interest does anyone know what this job would cost to get done by a TR workshop..? I think mine may need doing. Yes i could do it but its time that ive not got at present, and after last year any good weekends i would rather be driving it than stuck underneath it.

Regards Louis

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Louis

 

I can not imagine it would be cheap as you have to remove the crank and machine the rear seal or buy a readymade machined rear seal block. While at it it would be a good idea to control the mains and big ends as well as the crank itself, best done with the engine out to make sure the alignment of the seal carrier is correct. A good day or two's work

 

cheers

 

Alan

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I agree with Alan, under 200 pounds in parts (seal kit, gaskets, goop, oil etc) and a couple of days labor at the prevailing rate where you are.

 

Louis, what problem are you seeing that makes you think you need this seal conversion ?. I see this as an interesting option, insurance that can be added as part of an engine rebuild but not something I would normally pull an engine to do. If you have a puddle of oil under the car there are other things to explore before you start down this path.

 

Stan

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Hi Stan ive not had chance to have a good look yet, only going by the oil in my drip tray so i hope i can describe what i have. Ok the oil on the drip tray started to show a small loss on the rear left hand side of the engine (looking from front of car) which seems to be engine oil, recently ive started to get a drip on the middle to right hand side again to rear of engine that is a different oil im guessing it is gearbox oil, yellow in colour with a stronger smell. Ive only had the car since last may so no idea what oils have been used. I realise this could be a loss further forward and while ive been driving the oil has blown back and then dripping while static. If you can give me any guidence to what i should be looking for and doing that would be a major help.

Regards Louis

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Big problems with the Marx seal! Everything is centralised but when I (gently) place the crankshaft into the main bearings and the Marx seal holder, the seal is pushed up and doesn't sit on the journal making fitting the second half of the alloy holder impossible and there's no way I can force it down. This leaves a rather large gap between the holders. I'm also certain that the lip seal doesn't close up as it should! I'll try again tomorrow but I don't hold much hope!

In fairness to Marx, he replied to my email straight away this evening and made some suggestions.

Watch this Space!!

 

Tom.

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Big problems with the Marx seal! Everything is centralised but when I (gently) place the crankshaft into the main bearings and the Marx seal holder, the seal is pushed up and doesn't sit on the journal making fitting the second half of the alloy holder impossible and there's no way I can force it down. This leaves a rather large gap between the holders. I'm also certain that the lip seal doesn't close up as it should! I'll try again tomorrow but I don't hold much hope!

In fairness to Marx, he replied to my email straight away this evening and made some suggestions.

Watch this Space!!

 

Tom.

-------------------------------------------------

 

Doesnt sound right Tom.

 

Time for a photo.

 

I didnt have any issues.

 

Cheers

Guy

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