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Well, Heavens above it passed the MOT with a very badly painted rear wing.   Had an interesting day today. I needed to spray the  rear wing from the TR4. I did this last week and it wen

Hi Folks, well that was quite prophetic !!!!!!  Lockdown on March 23rd certainly threw a spanner in the works, So after 8 months sleep the Blue Racer has risen and having risdid is now at ho

Hi Roger, I recently had the "opportunity" (not) to do some bodywork on and respray my rear wing. I bought a very cheap (customer return) small garden gazebo on ebay and put it up in my garage. I

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Hi Folks,

the last week has had a bit of a roll going on with things falling into place.

The nearside front wing/door/rear wing are now fitted and all in alignment AND painted.

I was fitting the furflex to the near side door cut out and had a flight of fancy. I realised that I hadn't fitted the furflex to the offside.

So I stopped what I was doing and made a start on the offside.

I thought I had aligned the wings and doors and so was not too fussed about rushing in what I was doing. I then noticed that the front wing was pushed in slightly making the door look proud.  The door was going nowhere so I had to play with the wing. Luckily there was enough 'give' on the back plate that bolts to the 'A' post.

Then I noticed that the rear wing had the same issue.  I could move the wing out to align with the door but the bottom of the wing looked like an F1 airscoop - it was sticking out 10mm (that is nearly a foot). Again the door couldn't go in any further and the top of the wing to door was spot on.

On careful examination I noticed that the sill at the 'B' post was slightly deformed. After some serious measuring I found sthat the sill had been bashed in apprx 10mm in the long distance past -  however 9 years ago I paid a decent establishment serious money for painting and panel fit - Hm.

This morning I set to to resolve the issue. Angle grinder to the ready !!!!   I have made two long slits along the sill at the shape changes. The sill will then be pulled t the correct shape and welded into position. 

Tomorrow I shall start to weld it into shape. This will leave a large gap behind the bottom of the wing. I can see filler, lots of it.

May I impress upon you that this is a temporary fix. In the Autumn the sill will have a serious battle on its hands.

 

Roger

Edited by RogerH
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Having put the car away for the evening i was thinking how to repair the old sill and get it back to shape.

It can be done with what is there but it could get messy.

Then my grey cell arose and uttered the answer to me. Buy a replacement panel  and replace the whole rear lower quarter.

OK that means that 3/4 of a new panel will go to waste but it may come in handy one day.

Doing it this way it becomes a permanent repair rather than a 'get by' till the Autumn.

 

Roger

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I believe there is a new run of sills being made that supposedly are a good fit, why not fit a complete one Roger?

Stuart

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Hi Stuart,

the correct way to do it would be to replace the whole thing.  But that takes a good deal of disassembly and the sill is in otherwise good condition.

So as there is only a small (but significant) area of concern I am going for the key hole surgery.

If it goes wrong I can always do it again ............and again,,,,.......and again 

 

Roger

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2 minutes ago, RogerH said:

Hi Stuart,

the correct way to do it would be to replace the whole thing.  But that takes a good deal of disassembly and the sill is in otherwise good condition.

So as there is only a small (but significant) area of concern I am going for the key hole surgery.

If it goes wrong I can always do it again ............and again,,,,.......and again 

 

Roger

Normally with the older repro sills they only need a couple of slits to depress the rear section and give the correct step in so the wing fits flush, is that not the case with yours?

Stiart

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Hi Stuart,

it is a little complicated.   The bottom of the wing fits the sill very well.

With the wing unattached to the 'B; post it can follow the shape of the door very well.

But!!! - the rear lower corner of the door is so far out from the sill that when the wing follows the door rear edge the bottom of the wing sticks out like a scoop from the sill.

So with the door and wing in what would be the best position the sill is depressed into the bodywork - by about 10mm

My plan now is to cut the new panel and use the rear lower quarter as a large infill. I'll use an new end cap as tha may well be deformed.

 

The only annoying thing about all this is that I will need to remove the rear wing which I was hoping to leave in place.

 

Roger

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The new Moss pressed end caps are a good fit to give you the right shape to work the sill to.

Stuart.

 

Marks TR5 270.jpg

Marks TR5 271.jpg

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Hi Folks,

 the end cap is the correct shape so that is staying put.

I bought a new RH sill this morning and sad to say it is rather poor quality - it was the cheapest of the two that Moss sell but it is very thin and crudely pressed.

However It will satisfy my needs

In removing a large section of the original sill I found two interesting things,   

1 - just how thick the original metal is - probably 0.048" (1.2mm) substantial.

2 -  the lower flange of the sill is spot welded (plug weld in my case). The plugs were very crude so somebody had been doing something over its 59 years on the rad.                       Also between the two skins there was a membrane insulating the two skins. See the pics.  Probably about 0.010" thick         Never seen this before - could it be a layer of             fibreglass  -  but why.  There was no corrosion - anywhere

Inside the sill cavity there had been some pop riveting going on - not sure what the problem was but in the vicinity of the sill where it was deformed.

 

Roger

DSC_5933a.jpg

DSC_5934a.jpg

DSC_5935a.jpg

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Original sills were indeed 1.2mm which is 18SWG , cant really tell from your pictures what Im supposed to be looking at though Roger.

Stuart.

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Hi Stuart,

I have had a good measure and the original is 1mm (19SWG,   0.040) which is what I was expecting. But it is heavy (probably paint etc.)

The new panel is 0.031 (incl the brown coating)  is this a record for thinnest repro panel.

I am now making my own from 1mm  mild steel.

The picture shows what was between the two skins - where the sill joins the floor drop side at the bottom.

It is not a fabric as I first thought.  It looks more like a plastic that has got hot then cooled.  Only recently in the welding world are they looking at significant interface coatings and this was done in the 70's/80's and is MIG welded.

The holes in the filler are where the spot welds would have been. It would have run the whole length of the sill flange

The dark raised line along the bottom as per the pic would have been at the top of the flange. So I suspect what ever it is melted and some was extruded into the sill cavity

Roger

P1070152a.jpg

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I dont know the metric measurements for panels but that does seem thin, makes it a pain to weld especially if its the modern high carbon steel as you end up just blowing holes in it. Really no idea what the filler is, only thing I could think is someone perhaps poured lacquer in and its pooled down between the spots.

Stuart

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Hi Stuart,

I know one of the previous owners was an aerospace worker and the flavour of the month long ago was to put Duralac jointing compound between everything.

https://www.google.com/search?q=duralac&oq=duralac&aqs=chrome..69i57j0l9.3611j1j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8   Cheapish

Although not desirable it sets hard after a number of years.  Maybe our erstwhile rocket launcher slapped it on.  There is NO rust in this joint - the whole length.

The modern version is  JC5A https://www.lasaero.com/products/article/Q01V6G0YD   expensive

Roger 

 

 

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Interesting stuff Roger and I think youve found the culprit, Be good to use when assembling big Healeys where they have ally centre sections and ally wings also good for ally skinned doors too.

Stuart.

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Hi Folks,

just a quick report to show the issue with the sill

The attached pic show the rear 1/3 of the sill cut away.  The very rear remnant of sill under the rear wing is edged in red paint to high light it.

A straight edge was placed along the forward length of the sill. This shows that  the rear of the sill is a good 10mm pushed into the bodywork.

The bodywork actually looks OK.

I'll show further pics off what I did.  The new panel that I made fits as it should.

 

Roger

DSC_5958a.jpg

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8 minutes ago, RogerH said:

Hi Folks,

just a quick report to show the issue with the sill

The attached pic show the rear 1/3 of the sill cut away.  The very rear remnant of sill under the rear wing is edged in red paint to high light it.

A straight edge was placed along the forward length of the sill. This shows that  the rear of the sill is a good 10mm pushed into the bodywork.

The bodywork actually looks OK.

I'll show further pics off what I did.  The new panel that I made fits as it should.

 

Roger

DSC_5958a.jpg

What happened to the join between "B" post and sill?

Stuart.

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The first pic show the wing in the correct place in relation to the door.

The door can't be moved further in.   So the sill in the reduced area (behind the wing) is too far in (by 10mm) 

The previous repair suggests something naughty has happened.

The second pic show the panel in the process of being made

The third pic show the mis-alignment from above.

I'll show pics of the better alignment with the new panel tomorrow

 

Roger

DSC_5943b.jpg

DSC_5939a.jpg

DSC_5958a.jpg

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11 hours ago, ntc said:

Roger 

l no panic you said the door was as far in as it could go , clue there if all is right a straight edge or line front to rear like the sill trim will show 

No sill trim on a 4 ;)

Stuart.

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