TR4 Rebuild

[peejay4A]

Fail safe then

[RogerH]

Hi Folks,

the ammeter is back on - not sure if it is accurate but that is of little importance at present.

The wiper motor runs OK as do the lights - no smoke escaped, so I assume that the loom and various connections are good (brave words).

 

I'm still concerned about the choke cable. I've been given a replacement, for which I am most thankfull, but I want to get mine to fit as it probably should.

So I had an idea . The inner solid cable is soldered into the long shaft with the stops in it. This was dismantled and I soldered in a sranded bike brake cable.

I cut the outer cable off the end of the knob end fitting, making the knob end about 1/2" shorter than normal. I then soldered on a curved guide tube for the bike brake outer cableto run in. This allows the cable to have a smooth route passed the heater box.

 

The idea is sound and looks good. The only flaw in the whole shebang is that I have lost the lock nut that tightens the choke assy to the dash.

Where can I get a replacement nut. The moss catalogue doesn't show it. The thread is 12.5mm x 1mm pitch (25TPI) which is not a standard thread form.

 

 

 

 

 

Roger

 

PS - the gods are shinning on me - the errant nut was lounging on the drive outside the garage.

 

 

 

Edited April 30, 2018 by RogerH

[RogerH]

Hi Folks,

having got the choke cable assy to fit without too much struggling (nice flowing curves now) I found that the spring loaded thingy that holds the cable in place when pulled out for choke operation was not effective.

 

The inner tube that attaches the knob to the cable has three or four indents (similar to a saw tooth). A spring loaded blade sits in the sawtooth to hold it out.

Two things happen to make it not function correctly -

1, the blade wears

2, the brass tube wears - so the saw tooth effect ends up with rounded edges - which the blade simply rides over.

 

So I spent nearly an hour making a new blade. I used a piece of stainless steel as it is a little harder than mild steel. 0.033" thick.

The original shape was a simple segment of a circle but - small, in fact very small (actually smaller than that).

So as to show how easy it is to make this I decided to drop it on the lfoor and never find. The second attempt, I did not lose, didn't work as intended as the brass inner tube had more wear than I first thought.

So the Mk 3 (or it could have been Mk 4,5, or 6 or 7) had a small tang projecting into the saw tooth. This was fettled to give a good action (I like a good action).

 

So I now have a choke cable that glides swift like around the underdash obstructions, that pulls out smoothly and stays where put.

 

Before this all happened the builder man turned uip to discuss our plans for creating a theme park in our garden - yes it will be losely based on rebuilding a TR4 - failing that it will be a double garage and workshop at the end of the garden and a double side extension to the house.

 

This afternoon I'll check out a few more lecy circuits and then I may try for blast off and see what happens.

 

Roger

Edited May 30, 2013 by RogerH

[dykins]

 

Roger

 

Can we return to the important stuff...

 

Are you still watering your tomato plants each day and pinching out the side shoots (or haven't yours grown that much yet?

 

Regards

 

Peter

[RogerH]

Hi Peter,

there are certain priorities - and at this time of year it is tomatoes.

I have Moneymaker and Alicante. They have doubled in size since putting them in 12" pots - just under two weeks.

I have an automatic watering system that appears to be working well. There is a little standing water for most of the time but by the time the tom's are a decent size I think they will gulp all the water down during the day.

Side shoots are very small at present, but I'm ready to pounce. I noticed yesterday that the greenhouse windows need a clean. So I'll be out there later to sort them.

 

This morning. on the 'Blue Racer', I've been fitting speedo and tacho cables. The gauges will be fitted in a mo.

I have a few areas that need tidying up and then I'll concentrate on getting the engine started and running smoothly

 

Hopefully Tuesday/Wednesday of next week I may consider putting it in for the MOT

I have a concern over the rear dampers; the whole feels a bit wallowey compared to the 4A - but that has been quite stiff from the start.

 

 

How's your polishing coming along now the weather is warming up.

 

Roger

Edited May 31, 2013 by RogerH

[RogerH]

Hi Folks,

I'm just in the process of fitting the speedo and have noticed that the trip knob only increments the trip in 0.1miles.

And the three other reels simply go up in 1mile increments whereas on the 4A it goes up in 10's and 100's.

 

Are there any manuals/PDF's info about what goes on in these things or is it only to be sent away.

 

Roger

 

 

PS - just found this http://www.szott.com/lotusinfo/Smith-jaeger_speedo_repair.pdf

A bit of bedtime reading is called for

Edited May 31, 2013 by RogerH

[RogerH]

Hi Folks,

why is putting a car together more time consuming, demanding and down right bloody annoying than taking it apart.

 

Went to fit the speedo and found it would only go half way into the hole in the dash. I thought about wrapping gaffa tape around the gap but had second thoughts.

The upper clamp on the steering column was in the way (interestingly it was fitted as per the picture in the Moss Cat). So turned it around, but this made the tie rod too long.

My mind went into overdrive because I had problems with the choke cable being 'too long' also. Could the dash be too far forward, is it possible, surely not.

 

Anyway the holes in the tie rod were repositioned and it all fitted.

 

Another oddity I had was with the speedo trip reset plunger.

Mine was missing, so I made a new one. Getting the new plunger to join with the internal plunger required a split pin (oh no it didn't). Could I get a split pin to fit - no

The head of the split pin fouled the body of the speedo. So I used the two split pin legs without the head. This worked but looked ugly.

Went indoors for lunch, picked up a cup of tea, sat down and 'Eureaka' Not a split pin but a simple taper pin (which I don;t have). So a parallel pin with a rubber sleeve over it to keep it in place

 

So, just before fitting the speedo I go to insert a bulb into the main beam bulbholder - no way. This is a new autosparks loom and the three bulbholders for the speedo and tacho are so badly made the bulb refused to play ball. - oddly the two holders for the small gauges worked fine. After canabalising a few old holders all was well.

 

I have mislaid one of the round Ali knurled nuts holding the tacho in place. If anybody has any spare can I buy it off them please.

 

Roger

Edited May 31, 2013 by RogerH

[JANA]

Hi Roger,

 

Been there , done that ! Keep smiling , there's light at the end of the tunnel ! Your stories make us all smile.

Good luck!

 

Bob.

[stuart]

Roger there was a bad batch of those bulb holders a couple of years ago and Autosparks were sending new correct holders out FOC. at the time. May be worth having a word with Paul there.

Stuart.

[RogerH]

Hi Stuart,

thanks for the info. I've sorted the problem from the old loom.

 

Roger

[TorontoTim]

Did I miss the news of you starting it yet???

[Tony Millward]

Tim, I also looked back to see if I missed the start up... . Eagerly awaiting this epic moment....come on Roger!..

 

Tony

[RogerH]

Tim/Tony,

I've not had the 'official' start up yet but between you me and 1500 forum readers I gave it a quick go just to see if it would - and it did.

Nothing except the oil gauge was connected to it, so didn't want to run it for any length of time.

Either tomorrow or Monday I'll do the official ceremony.

 

Roger

Edited June 1, 2013 by RogerH

[RogerH]

Todays problem !!

the channels for the sealing rubber, that goes around the door cut, out are missing from the windscreen frame on both sides.

I know most poeple use the TR6 rubber&furflex combined seal so do not require the channel.

However the channels around the door cut out are in good order so want to use them - I understand the correct furflex is not available.

 

I have the new channels so am wondering the best way of attaching the channels to the screen frame.

Spot welding was probably the original method; and I could do this. But there associated problems with any welding.

 

Riveting may work (as per the surrey top rear screen seals).

 

Has anybody tried bonding (glueing) the channels in place - Araldite or something similar - has anybody got any recommendations on a top notch glue.

 

Roger

[Paul Harvey]

Roger,

Now you've got Photobucket I think a few more pictures would speak volumes for the intricate and impressive solutions you're finding to every detail of your restoration.

Clearly you intend to refurbish your own gauges and it may be worth waiting so you can calibrate them accurately at the same time - that really would be impressive but it seems you've found the right book.

It seems the Register have no plans to improve the uploading of pictures to the Forum so we are always frantically deleting old stuff to allow room for new pictures. It is really frustrating to search and find an old thread with brilliant solutions only to find the pictures have been removed!

[RogerH]

Hi Paul,

I'm just getting to grips with PhotoBucket and can now work it (sort of).

The gauges, hopefully, will not require calibration - fingers crossed.

 

I'll try and post a photo history of the rebuild soon

 

Roger

[stuart]

Roger the best way is to rivet them on (paint first) and apply a very thin layer of sealer between. You will need to grind down the head of the rivet gun to get in without squashing the edges of the channel down) The originals tended to rust between them and the panel. Bonding will leave them too proud due to the need for a layer of bonding material and will give problems with fit later. Be aware that some of the repro channels supplied now arent the same size as original.

Stuart.

[RogerH]

Hi Stuart,

many thanks again. At least you didn't suggest welding. Riveting I can do.

 

As an apprentice at BEA I did some of my time on DH121 TRidents.

Because I was smaller than most of the fitters I had some interesting places to go on the aircraft - something akin to a victorian chimney.

Most of the riveting jobs required standard dollies and tools but a few required specially shaped dollies to get into very awkward places.

When I eventually left the hangar for greater things I had a queue of fitters chasing me for my dollies - I should have sold them, but you can't; can you

 

Great days

 

Roger

 

PS - just had a root around in my rivet box and have found some luverly 3/32" monel pops, these should do nicely.

 

Roger

Edited June 1, 2013 by RogerH

[stuart]

Unless you had a one side spot welder then its not an option for that sort of thing.

Stuart.

[RogerH]

The seal channels up the side of the windscreen are now on complete with the rubber seal - and they look pretty good.

I didn't have the elusive one sided spot welder so used some natty 3/32" pops. And, I didn;t forget the sealant between frame and channel.

 

With regard to the single sided spot welder - at British Airways I was investigating a single sided X-ray machine.

These are/were made by Phillips and are/were quite remarkable.

Usually you have the machine one side and the film the other and the yobba rays pass through.

But with single sided the rays 'bounce' back onto a detector the same side as the machine

 

This afternoon I decided to replace a gaiter over the offside steering rack. I could have done this months ago with the rack on the bench, but why make things easy.

The track rod end came off quite easily. The old gaiter came off even easier. Sadly the new gaiter squirmed and wriggled like a well seasoned eel.

What a bu99er. It must have taken a good hour to fit it. The jubilee clip was not playing game so that went in the bin and I ended up using a platisc tie strap.

 

Went to fit the 'new' track rod end (I've had these ends for 4 or 5 years and carry them around in the boot for the longer tours) only to find they don't fit.

The taper is about 1/2" toooo long compared to the one that came off. I shall have to do a comparison on the shop counter tomorrow.

 

Roger

[RogerH]

Oh what fun.

yesterday (Wednesday) I checked my tie rod end with new ones (OE and Repro).

The problem is that the rubber boot had slipped down exposing more cone and coupled with the smaller threaded diameter it all took on a different guise.

 

I had niggly doubts about the integrity of the front suspension. So whilst I had the tie rod end off it was only a couple more nuts and bolts to strip the whole thing down

 

In is past life somebody has covered the chassis and all its bit with what looks like tar Macadam - no rust but you had to dig to find the nuts etc.

Eventually I got all the bits apart and cleaned and painted.

I crack checked the trunnion thread on the vertical link and all was well. Not so with the trunnion pin. This was quite worn and corroded.

Off I went to Moss to get a new trunnion (£70 ) luckily they didn't have one. But they did have a new pin (£12 )

Whilst discussing the matter with the counter attendant an expert with a Birmingham accent walked by and said you will need a bloody great press to take out the pin and put it back in.

Jokingly I said I'll have to use a very big hammer - he looked at me and frowned. This man is in fact a rather eminant knowledgeable expert of all things TR espeically.

gearboxes - am I in deep water or what!

 

I don;t have a 50 ton press but I do have hammers and vices (no, I don;t smoke). As the pin is inexpensive (and very well made) I thought I would give it a try.

 

The old pin did hammer out - 7lb club and lots os sweat. Putting the new one back in needed a more sublte approach - 5lb copper hammer and lots of grey cells.

I used one of the old nuts and a stack of washers on one end to protect the thread. The end of the thread was infact intact when I finished - not so some of the thread

mid way down. The pin is tempered very hard. This includes the threaded end section (even though they do not require to be hard).

The bashing and banging knocked off some of the thread - the eminent expert said this would happen .

Once the pin was started into the hole I then resorted to clamping the pin and body into the vice, tightening it up as hard as I dare and then whacking the vice with the 5lb copper hammer. This had the effect of jarring the pin into the body without undue stress on the threads. It took about 30 minutes to insert but it is there.

 

What to do with the damaged thread? The nut still goes on with no trouble but is held by only half the threads it needs.

So first thing this morning I shall apply some weld to the damaged area, grind it back to 7/16" diameter and then re-tap the thread.

I'm in two minds whether to anneal the thread before I start, this may avert any stress cracking that headened steel can do when welded.

 

I wonder what the end result will be like!!!

 

Roger

[RogerH]

Good news

the thread on the trunnion pin was welded in the damaged areas and the thread re-cut - and it worked. Not all my 'clever' ideas work.

Now for the chaos - the special locking washer in the refurb kit does not have the splines in the hole to slide onto the splins on the trunnion pin.

Never mind (thinks I) it will not rotate much. Sadly the manufacturer decided to drill the hole to the small diameter of the spline so the washer wouldn't fit

 

I'm lucky, I have a lathe and can make any hole you care to name. How do people get on if the haven't got a lathe.

 

Interestingly the new trunnion pin was 0.020" bigger in diameter than the old one. This was good as I did not have to fit the new bush but simply ream out the old one.

 

Anyway the bottom wishy bones are fitted. After lunch finish it off.

 

roger

[TR 2100]

Interestingly the new trunnion pin was 0.020" bigger in diameter than the old one. This was good as I did not have to fit the new bush but simply ream out the old one.

 

Roger,

 

I dont have any inside information but I suspect

that the oversize was intentional.

 

I'm sure certainly what Moss did with the vertical links.

So let's give them some credit, along with the flak

for sub-standard parts.

 

AlanR

[RogerH]

Hi Alan,

I was pleased that the pin was oversize as it meant that I didn't have to fit a new bush (does anybody want a new bush).

I have an expanding reamer that I bought in 1967 for some work on my lambretta. It works on rocker bushes, small end bushes and now wish bone bushes - excellent tool.

 

The front right suspension is now all back in and works amd looks good. The trunnion pin actually fits into the bushes beautifully.

 

On the way to Moss to buy some thin nylocs I had vision (no, nothing naughty) the locking washer #134320 had no serations/splines in to engage with the trunnion pin.

I wondered if you had to actaully press the washer onto the pin to cut its own splines - ummm!!!

 

I think I may pop down to Machine Mart and get a 20 Ton press.

 

Roger

[RogerH]

Having spent that last couple of days doing the front suspension (only one side so far) Is it possible to replace the TR4 items (trunnion and bushes) with the TR4A items.

The 4A system is so much easier AND cheaper.

 

Roger