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any ideas with the engine power?


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just got myself a tr4 at the moment it is getting done up and have anyone got an ideas how to make the engine a bit more horse power?it is a normal tr4 engine but i would like to keep the car looking original but i can mess about with it abit but i dont wanna brake the bank of money.im keeping the car spar white with red interiour

many thanks

chris

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Careful balancing and assembly with a bit of polishing of the ports, matching of the manifold holes to the head and a good four branch exhaust with a rebuilt distributor will work wonders. Use the later 4a inlet manifold with HS6 carbs as well if you can, if not then a bit of smoothing of the flow through the carb bodies will help. Nothing really expensive but will help quite a bit.

Stuart.

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Buy and read "How to improve Triumph TR2-4A" by Roger Williams (available from the Register's on-line shop). That will give you ideas so that you can decide how far you might want to go and how to get there.

 

Then talk to potential suppliers and select one to take you through to your ultimate destination - and that could be over a period of years, depending on the number of steps, the money in your pocket, and how much you are willing to do. I say one supplier because mixing & matching with 2 or 3 can lead to problems - the items might not work well together and the different suppliers could be pulling you in opposing directions!

 

Have a look at my article "Talking the Torque", published in TR Action 238 (October 2009). It should give you ideas on a target for a fast road car - a long, flat, torque curve is what one needs for good performance on the road - power is NOT the real target (but power will be good if the torque curve is right).

 

Ian Cornish

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An electric fan should be worth a HP or two.

Electric water pump a bit more, but more of a pain to fit.

 

 

 

Hi all,

 

An electric fan has been shown to gain 5.7 hp in a Peugeot 504. The engine is not very far from a TR banger. The small belt kit with a light alternator would gain another 2-3 hp.

A well designed fast-road camshaft would do a nice job along Ian C.'s suggestion and that's not an expensive item.

 

Cheers,

 

Badfrog

Edited by Badfrog
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Careful balancing and assembly with a bit of polishing of the ports, matching of the manifold holes to the head and a good four branch exhaust with a rebuilt distributor will work wonders.

When I had my head worked by SAH many years ago, they matched the ports. Alas, after the crankshaft breakage, that head was beyond repair and a brand new StanPart head was used with the usual stage 2 mods, but I was advised that matching the ports is not always as advantageous as it might appear and that there is a school of thought that a bit of turbulence in the inlet ports is a good thing. I bowed then (as always) to anyone with years of expertise and/or a degree in automotive engineering!

 

One thing is sure though - that most of the gain comes relatively cheaply from the mods Stuart recommends, but increases exponentially to become unjustifiable for road use.

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I think I would look at the inlet and exhaust tracts and the inside of the head, before changing the camshaft. The private owner can do a great deal to improve the path for the mixture (inlet manifold), combustion (head) and exhaust (manifold) - quite a lot to do, but costs time rather than money. An increase in compression ratio to 9.5 or so is cheap and can be combined with the profiling inside the head. The books by Williams and Kastner tell you what to do.

 

Wild camshafts are a pain in the backside for road work - go for something which still gives torque at 2,000 rpm or you won't be able to ascend hills without a down shift and you'll be for ever revving the motor unnecessarily. Good torque from about 2,000 to 5,000 makes for fast cross-country travel and enjoyment of the car.

 

And don't forget that the car MUST handle well BEFORE you make it go faster, else you will be in difficulties. Standard brakes are fine as long as the discs are in good condition - if not, skim or replace.

 

Ian Cornish

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Either ask the office if there's a spare copy of TR Action 238, or send me an e-mail (ifcornish@btinternet.com) and I will e-mail you an MS-Word version (with embedded graphs!).

Ian Cornish

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Have a look at my article "Talking the Torque", published in TR Action 238 (October 2009). It should give you ideas on a target for a fast road car - a long, flat, torque curve is what one needs for good performance on the road - power is NOT the real target (but power will be good if the torque curve is right).

Ian Cornish

 

 

 

Hi Ian,

 

I read your paper with great interest. Yet you don't mention any type of camshaft.

Does the R. Williams book deal with this topic with precise info ?

I've read the Kastner books but his solutions are quite radical plus he uses his own cams or US cams that might be difficult/expensive to find.

I have a decent but moderate cam right now of unknown origin and I'd like first to identify it then maybe replace it with a sprint88, which also has a flat curve (2000-6000) but increases valve opening more than my present cam.

 

Regards,

 

Badfrog

Edited by Badfrog
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Williams has a chapter on camshafts, then returns to the subject under "Upgrading the Engine".

 

Once you have digested that lot, I would suggest you talk to people whose cars you admire (there must be some in your local group, and folk are usually happy to give you a run in their machine), find out who supplied the parts and what they think of the supplier and the performance, then talk to a supplier with a good reputation, of which there's a number.

 

Ian Cornish

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Williams has a chapter on camshafts, then returns to the subject under "Upgrading the Engine".

Once you have digested that lot, I would suggest you talk to people whose cars you admire (there must be some in your local group, and folk are usually happy to give you a run in their machine), find out who supplied the parts and what they think of the supplier and the performance, then talk to a supplier with a good reputation, of which there's a number.

Ian Cornish

 

 

 

Will do. Thanks.

 

Badfrog

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HI Chris,

Where do you start?!?

Ian is quite right; a wild cam will just annoy. The TR4 engine is so low revving that unless you start spending wads on steel cranks etc, you are restricted to about 5500-6000rpm. The works cars were still red-lined at 5000rpm for longevity. A mild road cam will ensure that the engine is working in its correct range all the time.

 

There's also no point doing the cam if you don't do the inlet and exhaust manifolds (ie improve gas-flow). You will, however, notice an improvement if you use a 4-branch manifold and appropriate exhuast, bit of polishing on the inlet manifold and change the air filters and carb needles (even on the standard cam).

It's a good starter for a few hundred quid and you can feel the difference.

 

Then I'd concentrate on brakes, steering, bushes, etc so that when you do decide to change the cam, step up the 87/ 89mm pistons, balance the engine, electric fan, flow the head, Webers etc the car can actually use it and stop! (It's also worth checking the clutch, O/D-clutch and rear axle are in good condition before you throw several more ponies their way!)

 

Another top tip when you do the cam is to get the dizzy matched to it: Martin Jay is your man. (Dizzy Doctor).

 

Have fun

 

adey

 

PS: alternatively, try a rolling road session/ set-up - The best £120-150 I've spent on my car!!!

Edited by Ade-TR4
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... try a rolling road session/ set-up - The best £120-150 I've spent on my car!!!

 

 

 

That's a good idea, especially if you use the same road and operator before and after doing any mods.

 

I took my first TR3A to a rolling road when I got it in 1972. They were still a novelty for the average sports car owner but there was one on a farm not far away in the wilds of the Hertfordshire countryside, so I decided to try it although the car was a typical ratty old TR with no mods. However, apart from the dubious environment, it was a great experience and improved the performance beyond my expectations.

 

Technology has moved on quite a lot since then and you've made me think it might be nice to have my current car done. How much can one expect for that sort of money?

 

e.g. Would it include fitting new parts such as needles to SUs or simply adjusting carburation and timing?

 

Any recommendations in the Herts/Beds area?

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Are you looking for something like that:

 

 

Simple TR, used for carrying wooden boards (can be seen on the right side) home from the do-it-yourself market.

About 172 HP take care for some punch.

 

Cheers

Chris

Edited by MadMarx
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Hi all,

 

About SU carbs, my latest:

 

I had 2" HS8 from a Rover with TS needles. Nice perf but temp in the high range constantly, leading to instant overheating in traffic, no matter the adjustment. I had to be on the rich side at all times with a 15% extra fuel consumption. So I removed these carbs, kept the 2" rebored manifold and installed my original HS6 with radiused pistons, TS needles and yellow springs. I also bored both openings to 2" with best possible angle up to the shafts, just to adjust the venturi to the manifold.

 

Wonderful result: same power as with HS8, no lag on acceleration, temps to normal in all circumstances, grey exhaust, normal mileage.

A very cheap mod (grinder plus needles and springs) for a maximum result.

 

About camshafts, mine is currently under scrutiny for identification. Lift specs look like it's a mild fast road.

Once I'll have the duration, I'll take decisions to change or not but I do concur that radical stuff should be left for racing.

 

Badfrog

Edited by Badfrog
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  • 9 years later...

In reading here and there, I've noticed that this book on mods:J.L.S. Maclay, Triumph TR Maintenance, Modifications, and Tuning (1967) is never cited. I have a pdf. Too big to send here in attachment, but will gladly send by email. Send PM (edited, to avoid spamming)

Edited by David Brancaleone
To avoid spamming. I'd given my private email in an open forum!
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On 12/3/2010 at 3:38 PM, ianc said:

 

And don't forget that the car MUST handle well BEFORE you make it go faster, else you will be in difficulties. Standard brakes are fine as long as the discs are in good condition - if not, skim or replace.

 

Ian Cornish

I would echo Ian's wise words - extra horsepower = better brakes and suspension. A brake servo is worth fitting in my experience.

If you are simply using the car for normal road use I personally would leave alone cam upgrades etc because I know of people who have fast road cams plus extra go faster mods and hard suspension and end up with a car that isn't pleasant to drive under normal road conditions (again as Ian put it so well - "Wild camshafts are a pain in the backside for normal road use"). You will also end up using more fuel. Tweaking carbs and smoothing manifold internally and maybe narrow fan conversion. It's a TR not a Lamborghini after all.

Keith

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Crikey a resurrected thread from 2010 with several contributions from Badfrog, he (and others) live on...............................at least on this forum!
Ian

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Threads... My thoughts are that they contain helpful, useful, essential, contributions. I find that I learn a lot about engineering aspects from them. For example, a TR4A exhaust manifold on an early TR added to other engine mods avoids the side effects (more noise and heat) of a 4-2-1.

To me, this is no silly FB chat. If anything, and if it hasn't been done, some kind soul might even pull all the technical notes together. I saw something similar done by a Swiss early TR man.

What I mean to say is that these kinds of threads are not time-bound. 2010 or 2020 may make no difference in my view.

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Hi David,

I think most of the people using the forum are in agreement with you when it comes to previous posts with useful information.

I think cvtrian was making a humorous interjection because we held Badfrog in high esteem, and to see his contributions today is a warm reminder of him.

Kind regards

Tony

 

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36 minutes ago, tthomson said:

Hi David,

I think most of the people using the forum are in agreement with you when it comes to previous posts with useful information.

I think cvtrian was making a humorous interjection because we held Badfrog in high esteem, and to see his contributions today is a warm reminder of him.

Kind regards

Tony

 

Thanks Tony, spot on (as usual). Long may Badfrog (and many other positive forum contributors over many years) "live on"...........
Ian

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