Rocker Shaft Oil Feed Kit

[JochemsTR]

what a difference a space makes....

[Waldi]

Hi Jochem,

as you know there are different opinions on the external oil feed to the rocker shaft.

If my rockers did not get any oil (just a drip is enough I feel), I would install the external feed with a restriction orifice, to avoid all mentioned negative aspects.

The amount of oil needed is very very small, so it should not affect oil pressure and oil flow to the main and big end bearings too much. Off course, oil pump and oil pressure need to be ok before doing this.

This is just my opinion.

Waldi

[Tom Fremont]

I have the external oil feed on my driver [ with Webers and CP cam ] with rebuilt rocker shaft assembly, now with 125K miles on its last rebuild. The rocker shaft assembly has little or no wear and oil pressure with 20W-50 and thermostatically controlled oil cooler is 65 psi @ 2000 rpm minimum. Oil consumption is 3000-4000 miles per U.S. quart for normal to X-country cruising. No valve guide seals are present. The feed line kit was supplied by TRF back in the 1900s. It does take some fiddling to get it to seal properly on the head; for this reason I don't have it on my concourse car which only does ~ 500 miles /  year.

I recommend them.

 

Tom

[Fireman049]

Regarding the on-going saga of the external oil feed. Do I fit it or don't I. ???????      

Can we please get this sorted out once and for all ???

Tom.

[RogerH]

Hi Tom,

once we agree on -

oil or grease in the trunnions,

SAE40 or EP90 in the gearbox/OD, 

electric rad fan or mechanical, 

Cellulose or 2K pain scheme.

Which side for the indicator stalk

We can look at  oil feeds.   

 

Roger

Edited May 2, 2019 by RogerH

[Fireman049]

So very true Roger ~ I won't hold my breath ~

Regards ~

Tom.

[stuart]

22 minutes ago, Fireman049 said:

So very true Roger ~ I won't hold my breath ~

Regards ~

Tom.

We dont fit or recommend the standard available kit.

Stuart.

[Fireman049]

Thank you for that Stuart ~

Tom.

[JochemsTR]

We are loosing track of my question. I need some guidance to go forward. In my opinion, without removing the head and assuming my oil pressure is as what the instrument is saying, it does not leave me with much options. Or?

[TriumphV8]

If you fit the original external feed kit the oil pressure drops less than 0.5 bars.

From that view I think that is acceptable.

 

What I found out is that a huge splash of oil pops out of the rocker gallery just

where there is a small space. It has nothing to do with improved oiling but a huge

waste of oil. From that point I would not recommend to do so.

 

I tried the 0.8mm orifice.

With that the pressure drop can not be recognized.

Two questions remain: Is that necessary at all and what happens

to the oil suction through the valve guides.

Without the valve caps the oil drops into the inlet and build a huge

amount of coal on the inlet valve.

So with a oil splash in the head the valve caps are necessary and not

only the rubber rings fitted on the valve stems.

 

What nobody took into account is to increase the flat spot on the cam!

Maybe that wrong size or position is the reason for Jochems oil problem. The spot

does the metering by making at each revolution a connection between oilfeed and

piping to the head. Either the flat spot can be increased or an additional spot can be

grind into the cam at 180 degree.

 

I would check position and size of the flat spot first before fitting the external oil feed.

How to do so?

I would take the oil pump drive out and make an external drive with an Accu driller.

Now the engine can be turned slowly by hand to expect a position where the oil pops

out of the feed hole in the cylinder head.

If there no position can be found  where the oil pops out there is something wrong with

the position of the two holes or flat spot on cam.

If oil pops out the spot is too small and that should be corrected with next cam swap.

[JochemsTR]

Andreas, thank you! Very helpful! 

Jochem

[RogerH]

Hi Jochem,

sorry about the thread drift - my fault

So, no oil comes out from head where there should be oil.

If you remove the rocker shaft pedestal where the oil feed should go into the shaft there is a hole that goes direct to camshaft rear journal/bearing. (you can on a 4A)

If you poke'push/insert a rod down the hole and make contact at the bottom - if you rotate the cam slowly can you feel the flat spots on the cam journal.

If you can't then it may be that the bearing hasn't got its oil holes aligned - question !! do TR6's have cam bearings.

 

Roger

 

 

[stuart]

26 minutes ago, RogerH said:

Hi Jochem,

sorry about the thread drift - my fault

So, no oil comes out from head where there should be oil.

If you remove the rocker shaft pedestal where the oil feed should go into the shaft there is a hole that goes direct to camshaft rear journal/bearing. (you can on a 4A)

If you poke'push/insert a rod down the hole and make contact at the bottom - if you rotate the cam slowly can you feel the flat spots on the cam journal.

If you can't then it may be that the bearing hasn't got its oil holes aligned - question !! do TR6's have cam bearings.

 

Roger

 

 

Some do as they use the spitfire bearing kit.

Stuart.

[JochemsTR]

I do not have cam bearings. 

The hole under the pedestal is not a straight thru hole connecting to the engine block. I need to do what Andreas advises. Use a drill and try to generate oilpressure. As I mentioned, this just started. I have the cam for a few miles already and did some heavy dyno testing and all was fine. The problem just suddenly occurred. 

[Waldi]

Jochem, did you check with cold or warm engine? and idle or increased revs?

When the engine is warm, and I increase the revs, I get some oil. When the engine is cold, I do not see much. I have the flat area  on the rear cam shaft journal, it is an original CP cam shaft, and the bearing clearance is within tolerance.

Waldi

 

[Tom Fremont]

3 hours ago, TriumphV8 said:

 

I tried the 0.8mm orifice.

With that the pressure drop can not be recognized.

Two questions remain: Is that necessary at all and what happens

to the oil suction through the valve guides.

Without the valve caps the oil drops into the inlet and build a huge

amount of coal on the inlet valve.

So with a oil splash in the head the valve caps are necessary and not

only the rubber rings fitted on the valve stems.

 

 

My driver's has no valve guide seals and mileage before requiring oil be added is an integer multiple of the original ( 3000-4000 miles vs. 800 per quart ).

I very much appreciate having more oil lubricating the valve guides, as the paltry amount given by the standard setup gives me little confidence.

As to whether or not this auxiliary feed line is " necessary ", I suppose it may not be when the rocker shaft is chrome plated and the arms are bronze bushed. This is the case with both of my engines, so an incomplete experiment in my case. Valve guides in the driver's head have 90K miles so far and are bronze.

 

Tom

[JochemsTR]

Update:

the hole under the pedestal going to the rear cam bearing is open. I blew air thru it and clearly air was coming out the engine block. Turning the cam changed the air sound since as Andreas mentioned, the flat spot appeared.

Next step: making small tool to turn the oil pump and watch the oil from under the pedestal (hopefully). New Rockers and feed kit were ordered.

Using the starter to introduce oil pressure (without spark plugs) does not give me the necessary revolutions (only 170) and therefore, not enough pressure.

Jochem

Edited May 5, 2019 by JochemsTR

[Marcel]

I have fitted on external oil feed pipe to my engine after inlet valve seizure. I replaced all my guides, valves, new rocker shaft and some new rockers. My rocker shaft oil grooves were appalling though. Mark at Jigsaw racing recommended me to fit an external oil kit, no engines leave his workshop without it.

I had read all the pluses and minuses and reluctantly fitted one.   I must say I still have very good oil pressure, no smoke, no increased oil consumption and a happy oil feed rocker assy. My theory now is if you see smoke or increased oil consumption it’s time for some work to your head it’s your early warning system. Don’t reduce your oil supply to reduce smoke or consumption, it’ll end in tears. If your pump pressure reduces a significant amount look at your pump, it might need attention, my pressure has maybe only dropped 5 psi. 

The orifice on kits supplied by Jigsaw racing only have a approximately 3mm orifice, if your pump can’t cope with an addition of that there is something wrong.

Were lucky with TR’s, parts are cheap.

[astontr6]

On 7/29/2010 at 9:40 PM, Guest ntc said:

 

Correct as usual Alec

+1 for Alec but I would be more concerned about the grade of steel used to manufacture these rocker shafts and its Rockwell hardness value, because in the past when I have checked Moss's offerings they have been soft like their lay shafts. They do not pass the file test? Remember that they do no G.I. inspection? You have to do your own!

Bruce.

[Richard71]

I know this topic revival has drifted a few times, but I've always liked the idea of the supplemental oil feed kit, however, where in the line is this restrictor fitted and what does it look like, anyone got a photo.

Richard.

[stuart]

43 minutes ago, Richard71 said:

I know this topic revival has drifted a few times, but I've always liked the idea of the supplemental oil feed kit, however, where in the line is this restrictor fitted and what does it look like, anyone got a photo.

Richard.

The banjo bolt on the top end that goes into the head is soldered or brazed shut and then re-drilled to the correct size orifice.

Stuart.

[Fireman049]

Hi Stuart ~

What is the correct size orifice?

Tom.

[stuart]

Depends but usually 1mm.

Stuart.

Edited May 8, 2019 by stuart

[Fireman049]

Thank you Stuart ~

Regards ~

Tom.

[JochemsTR]

Update:

I made a shaft to pick up the Oilpump and attached an electric drill. I generated about 72 psi. Which is actually what I normally have during driving.

I viewed the oil coming from the head (at pedestal). It was there, just coming out but hardly any pressure...I did following pressure readings:

- location at aft camshaft bearing: 72 psi

- location at distributor: 72 psi

I attached the feed kit at the aft camshaft bearing and the oil coming out was cleary more, but not exploding or something. I did not see any pressure drop. 

I bought new rockers and shaft. and I will attach the feed kit.

Jochem